How I wish Eureka was

[RiyahArp]

If were talking about Guardian and God Kefka here, well, that's the point.

Well, no, from the scuttlebutt even 05 is a pain for many people. It's just, well, to assume even now its easy enough that people are only locked out by choice is a bit much. They made it better, but it's still overall something that doesn't really attract casuals to do, and it's hard enough to prevent friends from doing it together if they have different skill levels. It's just now it's not destroying everyone raiders and casuals alike, like Alex did.

I think they could test this by making the last fight of this tier on casual as hard as low-end savage, and I think we'd see then how skill varies among people.

[Remedi]

I don't believe this. I've seen way too much complaining about PUGs, especially 07 and up, to believe even easier savage is accessible for all. I notice a lot that people who do savage seem to really underrate their skill and overrate the easiness of content in this game, which makes it hard for them to accurately comment on how hard something is for people not in their cohort.

As for making relics harder, I really don't think hard + long grind will be nice for many people. Making them more involved...idk, that just makes people rely on third party guides really.

Free to not believe it, but the fact is that savage is much more pug friendly than before anyway and mind you I don't mean braindead easy, the simple fact that it's even puggable in some form it's just miles better than what gordias and midas were for the raiding scene.

And about relics I'm not saying that it requires to be hard and long, imagine you get to floor 100 with pugs on potd and you get like 50 anemos crystals, you get to floor 200 solo and you get a weapon complete (ofc this is just an example because solo floor 200 is bonkers with RNG) But in short the harder the content the greater the progression the less the grind and viceversa.

[KaldeaSahaline]

Everyone is equal when it comes to relics. No one has an advantage. Feel free to dislike it of course, it's just how it's designed. I prefer the way it is. You already have a way to get better gear first, Savage.

I know how it's designed. I was explaining why I think it's BAD design. Since you don't appear willing to consider anyone else's position, how about this:

Relic weapon models are now a reward from Savage. No more glows, or unique models for Relics. You get dyeable normal mode raiding weapons now for completing relic quests.

Are you ok with this?

Anemos is stage one, the beginning of Eureka. As a base, i thought it was pretty good, lots of room to grow and expand.

While I appreciate your post - do you have any input on any of the content therein? Likes/dislikes? etc?

Considering how easy it is to be one shot in Eureka at lower levels as it is, I think it's just mean to want a constant bleed on your HP.

Low level players would have trouble getting anything done

If you get one shot, what does a bleed matter then? Low level players are fine. They grind boring mobs of equal level until they're high enough for the FATE train. My implementation wouldn't change that significantly. Not to mention, you neglected to consider the offensive/defensive benefits of the Magia board (i.e. not just base damage up/damage taken down)

I don't see how would Eureka suffer for having a harder mode. Since the zone has a punishment for death, people who couldn't deal/don't want to deal with an uptick in difficulty would still have plenty of others to play with in their default mode trains. Those who want in and out could be in and out. Those who like the current mode could enjoy themselves at their own pace.

Bingo.

guess you're just too good at the game. *shrug* you already get the good stuff by beating savage. you might as well unsub til the next raid tier.

Why make this post? What did you plan to gain? You're being nothing more than a dismissive child.

How about you actually read the OP and give some actual insight into why ideas might be good or bad, etc.

Apart from the effects carried by mobs, there doesn't seem to be quite enough depth or impact from the elements to warrant their complexity. I'd wager that using the elements alike to a generated-spent resource instead would allow for more impact during whatever events or conditions one would be looking for that impact, therefore seeing greater presentation even with the same, on average, power. I love the weather patterns, though some (such as Heatwave) seem like they could use some fleshing out for more apparent impact.

I won't lie and say I didn't struggle with some of the weather effects. However, the reason they're not super deep on their own is because of how they interact with both the mobs and the magia board. It's intended to be a deep culmination, not 3 deep systems woven together to make a trench. If that makes sense (I've been guilty in the past of over-engineering a concept)

but I don't think this addresses any of the more basic issues with Eureka, which are to me the areas of, essentially, forced dead space, mostly due to the leveling curve.
- Optimal leveling, unless NMs die very, very slowly, requires what amounts to afking, especially due to the late access to mounts. Players create dead space.
- Once NM packs are outleveled, they're generally skipped. Portions of the map become dead space.

This is intended. I've done that exercise before (remember the other thread last year?). My goal here was to take an existing content form, and add my own elements of engagement within the current design constraints without compromising the experience for players who like the current iteration.

Re: Dead Space - agreed. One thing I wanted to do was have the "treasure map" mob hunting function in ways that got you out all over the map, and not isolated to specific highly populated areas.

Yet non Savage raiders are left out of Savage. (It's too hard for them often enough.)

Raiders have one thing, everyone else has something else. Simple.

You're looking at this from an extremely one dimensional perspective, frankly, it's incredibly dismissive of actual discussion and juvenile.

Non raiders are not left out of savage just like raiders aren't left out of earning relics.

I asked you earlier and you ignored it so I will ask again.

What do YOU lose by me completing my relic in a different manner. Tell me specifically what pain points and issues you are faced with as a result of my accrual.

Theory crafting like this is fun and all but with the content already basically set in stone, I doubt they will take any of these ideas into account. They may already have plans for some of this stuff, if so, excellent, you have a few neat ideas. If not, well I hope you arent setting your expectations based on this being implemented, if so I'm willing to bet you will be disappointed.

Correct - I do these types of things to make work go by more quickly when it's slow. They're not calls to change the game, they're merely for fun what ifs based on flaws I PERSONALLY find in the game.

As for making relics harder, I really don't think hard + long grind will be nice for many people. Making them more involved...idk, that just makes people rely on third party guides really.

Did you read the entire OP? Y/N?

If you did I'm not sure where you got the idea of me trying to make the relics harder. I'm offering a different AVENUE for skilled players to have some fun inside Eureka and still work towards accruing their relic. The existing experience wouldn't change much for anyone who likes the current iteration.

Did you have any input into any of the concepts in the OP? Good? Bad? Things you like? Things you didn't?

After seeing Eureka I would have rather gotten a relic similar to HW. Even using the older one to skip the fate step. Because when all is said and done the current step for the level 70 is just glorified fate grinding.
Besides the older relics could be done while doing others things too. Like helping friends or others complete their dungeon runs, farming mounts, or just roulettes.
Now it is pointless because the tome gear is extremely easy to get. i330 gear, even the weapon takes no time to get. And Eureka gear isn't really all that much better. and i360 only takes time because of the weekly cap.

Did you maybe have any insight into the concept I posted in the OP? Was there anything you liked? Anything you didn't?

[RiyahArp]

There are some forces with it that do lockout players. The limit break thing is pretty bad, because it combines with the whole "hard to gear multiple jobs" aspect to kind of restrict the jobs you can join pugs with. You see a pretty big downturn of learning parties as early as a month after launch, so you spend more time waiting either within your own party or someone elses. I meant more that it's not really as easy to say "oh, just do savage" because for every one of your stories, I'm sure there's another opposite. It's still hard enough to not really serve as endgame for most people in the game.

Free to not believe it, but the fact is that savage is much more pug friendly than before anyway and mind you I don't mean braindead easy, the simple fact that it's even puggable in some form it's just miles better than what gordias and midas were for the raiding scene.

And about relics I'm not saying that it requires to be hard and long, imagine you get to floor 100 with pugs on potd and you get like 50 anemos crystals, you get to floor 200 solo and you get a weapon complete (ofc this is just an example because solo floor 200 is bonkers with RNG) But in short the harder the content the greater the progression the less the grind and viceversa.

It's markedly easier, but we're still seeing relatively low completion rates from the playerbase, and the latter tiers are pretty much held as pug nightmares. And eve with easy, i see maybe 36 adverts on primal for all 4 current savage tiers, with the majority of them being farms. I think people overrate how pug friendly it really is, because they judge it often on "lets pug to replace the guy who isnt on this week" and can muddle thtrough.

Like let me put it this way; there's probably more people doing one eureka instance, than all the current and past ex primal parties on party finder.

That potd thing...you think its good, but you just gave people the ability to sell relic clears. And hard and fast...what's the point? You get done earlier and raid log earlier.

[Remedi]

I'm not deniying it, the prospect of beign late and the terror story are all true, however Bokchoy has released a guide talking about this aspects
https://bokchoykn.wordpress.com/2018...-game-content/ in order to inspire ppl intor trying savage.

I'm absolutely not saying that you are wrong, because it's true you raise good points and I would agree to some too, but I found some interesting bits in that essay nevertheless

edit: The potd thing was an example of Puggable content vs challenging content and how to adapt a relic reward to different tiers of challenge, I used potd as a content that has different tiers of difficulty, but I don't think it needs to be that

[Sigma-Astra]

I'm not deniying it, the prospect of beign late and the terror story are all true, however Bokchoy has released a guide talking about this aspects
https://bokchoykn.wordpress.com/2018...-game-content/ in order to inspire ppl intor trying savage.

Oh hey, I know that person, I never knew he had a blog. xD He's helped me sometimes on Sarg.

[Kayiko]

After seeing Eureka I would have rather gotten a relic similar to HW. Even using the older one to skip the fate step. Because when all is said and done the current step for the level 70 is just glorified fate grinding.
Besides the older relics could be done while doing others things too. Like helping friends or others complete their dungeon runs, farming mounts, or just roulettes.
Now it is pointless because the tome gear is extremely easy to get. i330 gear, even the weapon takes no time to get. And Eureka gear isn't really all that much better. and i360 only takes time because of the weekly cap.

[RiyahArp]

I'm absolutely not saying that you are wrong, because it's true you raise good points and I would agree to some too, but I found some interesting bits in that essay nevertheless

Yeah, I read that too. Idk, motivation is what you need to get into the door, but hard is still hard, and you have to be careful not to build it up as too easy.

[RainDurell]

Just wanted to say, I'm definitely with you on this Kaldea.
Eureka at the moment is glorified fate farming with barely anything interesting aside from that. Not only that, new eureka players can barely participate in these FATEs because the FATE train is focused around the higher level areas, which ends up in people AFKing.

Your ideas are really interesting, I'd like to see more dynamic gameplay like that in Eureka.

[MageBlack]

Honestly, I didnt like the majority of what you were trying to propose, some things didnt make any sense, and most of it sounds like you were trying to complicate things for the sake of being complicated, like the bleed which adds nothing to the system.

I also disagree with this need you have to make it more like the savage raid or somehow involve Savage as required for completing Eureka. It should be the other way around (and it is). Its not supposed to be hard, just lengthy. More spawn conditions, environmental conditions having more of an impact other than just Gales, that stuff sounds good. But that will also be coming in the next iteration, ie building on the content they already have. If you want something to challenge you beyond EX/Savage they have already put that in, its called the Ultimate raid.

What do YOU lose by me completing my relic in a different manner. Tell me specifically what pain points and issues you are faced with as a result of my accrual.

Nothing. The problem is the player base is constantly looking for the path of least resistance. Tell me, If you could do something one way with minimal effort or another way thats challenging, why would anyone take the challenging path? Look at Eureka currently, even something as simple as splitting the NM train into smaller groups, which is possible and players could be earning exp AS they trigger the NM, no one wants to do it. They would rather stand in the mob and /cheer until the NM pops, tap it, rinse, repeat, then complain its too easy and simple. So unless you are going to eliminate all other options to progress and force the players to only do it the way you want, its kinda pointless to have multiple pathways. Not saying it wouldnt be more fun or that you might have a handful of people try it that way, in the end it would only be a waste of dev time.

i do hope the devs see this, and all other posts about eureka, and keep them in mind when creating more content going forward. Take ideas that work for them, tweak others to suit the content, and ditch the stuff that simply wont work. One thing I do wish they had added in was that the random tornados in the zone would toss you up, wouldnt need to be damaged, just tossed. It would have been fun to watch a tornado tear through the NM train!

EDIT:
Something I would love for them to add to eureka is the Adrenaline gauge, that could add a nice level of complexity to it. Do it FFXI style and the Magic Burst's.

Second Edit:
It also occurred to me that some of your style of suggestions are already in there. I think its numbers (?) That summons a "Void" that needs to be targeted and destroyed (secondary target to liven up the fights) but no one seems to even bother with it anymore, same with any adds in the vicinity. So how do you expect a raid full of players to actually use any kind of group tactic?