Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[Avatre]

We don't know that yet? Did they say you can buy coins or nuts with real money? I can't recall seeing that.

Additionally(pretty sure it was mentioned earlier in this thread that you could buy the coins/nuts through the app for money), do we know if it is unlimited purchases a day, or as some MMOs do, limit/question you if you exceed a certain number of purchases a day/week/month(though I have never heard of this type of thing for a mobile app...it's still a potential)?

[Rinuko]

Additionally(pretty sure it was mentioned earlier in this thread that you could buy the coins/nuts through the app for money), do we know if it is unlimited purchases a day, or as some MMOs do, limit/question you if you exceed a certain number of purchases a day/week/month(though I have never heard of this type of thing for a mobile app...it's still a potential)?

As in speculations then? Have SE said we can buy coins? Again, can't recall seeing or hearing this.

[Vstarstruck]

As in speculations then? Have SE said we can buy coins? Again, can't recall seeing or hearing this.

I went to bookmark this post, cuz im tried of hunting it down:

It's a misinterpretation of the slides.

In the slides they said searching the market and putting items for sale is both free and premium



BUT the next slides reveal how exactly that work, you can't sell or buy items in the market unless you use the new cash currency.

It's labeled as free because:



You get "kupo nuts" from daily login, I imagine 1 kupo nut = you can do 1 purchase/sale in the market every day, for premium it's 2 transactions per day.

Then they introduce an additional currency you can pay real money for which allows you to buy/sell items with no limit at an additional cost



In conclusion: they walled the entire market function behind a microtransaction (moogle coins) and you get 1 free coin per day (2 if premium)

THEY flat out said it in these slides, it is not speculation.

Retainers and app is pay to win

[akaneakki]

retainers and app is pay to win

Let me ask you this question. Lets pretend either of us is a omni crafter, who makes more money than the other. Then we also say the omni crafter has less inventory space and retainers than the person who is not, who make more gil? If you think making gil is pay to win, go for it, but it's not. It doesn't effect your pve battles or pvp. This game is highly based on pve. Where does gil get involved into that? You need to explain that in a very constructive way and explain in details how it's giving you wins in pve. 1 2 3 go!

[Istaru]

Let me ask you this question. Lets pretend either of us is a omni crafter, who makes more money than the other. Then we also say the omni crafter has less inventory space and retainers than the person who is not, who make more gil? If you think making gil is pay to win, go for it, but it's not. It doesn't effect your pve battles or pvp. This game is highly based on pve. Where does gil get involved into that? You need to explain that in a very constructive way and explain in details how it's giving you wins in pve. 1 2 3 go!

What if PVE or PVP aren’t your focus in this game? Then what?

[akaneakki]

What if PVE or PVP aren’t your focus in this game? Then what?

That's something I can't answer on, because I don't even know what the gil could possibly be used on to make it pay to win. So I will ask you the same question, if it wasn't pvp or pve focus in this game, would gil be pay to win and if so, explain to me how the system would work then also explain how the gil would get you more win.

I'm not sure why this is a debate. P2W is paying money to get an advantage in game. More retainers gives clear advantages in game. More market board access is an advantage in game. More storage is an advantage in game.

People trying to split hairs over how big an advantage it is have already conceded the point that it's an advantage of some kind, so it's already P2W.

I'm going to disagree with you, I'm not sure how more retainers gives more advantage in the game when you aren't following: omni crafter and if you are, then you mostlikely make a lot of gil with less retainers than others. It's how it's used and any smart player in this game would NEVER overflood mats/gear/items on MB, that makes the cost even lower in a shorter time and you make barely any proffit of it.
More glamour space? How is that pay to win? Does glam give you more advantage in pve or pvp? Let me ask you this question, what is the advantage of having more storage in game? What items do you put in there to make you win?

Does that count for selling Clears? How many of that Gil is RMT actually? Do you know, neither do I.

If we already go into Pay2Win, we might step into this case aswell *whoops* - *swifts away*

I don't really think it's completely pay to win. Pay to win in pve is where you can buy an item from cash shop to help you kill a boss/raid. That's an example, buying a run from people isn't pay to win, that's paying for a service than anything. It's like saying I give the controller to a friend of mine IRL to beat a boss for me and I give him 5 bucks to do it, it's not pay to win, I pay him for a service.

[Istaru]

That's something I can't answer on, because I don't even know what the gil could possibly be used on to make it pay to win. So I will ask you the same question, if it wasn't pvp or pve focus in this game, would gil be pay to win and if so, explain to me how the system would work then also explain how the gil would get you more win.

An apology first, most of what you asked for is tied up in emotion from me. As such, it is a bit long.

For me, most of my enjoyment from this game is from crafting and selling stuff. I can’t tell you the last time I even ran a dungeon. My goal isn’t to clear savage or ultimate, it’s crafting and making some money from that.

People with more retainers have more access to retainer goods than someone without them. At the start of SB, Manzasiri Hair and Halgsi Mane were needed for many items and were not well stocked since they were monster drops. Crafting anything using those was very expensive and only possible in very limited quantities. As an example, to make just 1 of each item that used them, you would need about 350 of each. That quantity was simply unavailable, you couldn’t buy it with all the money. Someone could get like 5-7 of them from their retainers per hour. A person with 8 retainers could get like 20-28 of each per hour versus 5-7 of each per hour with 2 retainers. If your only goal is to make items and sell them, having the ability to make and sell things quicker is a huge advantage, you beat the undercutting rush and saturation that comes later. People with more retainers can sell more items since they have more slots open to sell things. If you craft a lot, it’s very easy to fill 2 retainers and then you are stuck until something sells.

An enhanced ability to undercut all day, every day is an advantage from the Moogle coins. When new crafted gear is released in a patch, it is a race to the bottom. If someone has the app and wants to spend the money, they can control a segment of the marketboard and make it significantly harder to compete. Yes, selling stuff on the marketplace can be a competition of sorts. Yes, people can do this now, but it is a bit limited. This cannot be controlled by anyone and everyone during the day when many people are at work or school or whatever. That changes with the app. We now have 100% access to 100% of the marketboard 100% of the time. But only if we pay SE extra.

If I can’t sell the things I make, Or I have to sell at a significant loss, my enjoyment, my winning per se, is damaged. If I cannot do what I enjoy, I would probably have to leave the game at that point because my enjoyment has been put out of my reach unless I do the same as the people with the app. They get more materials than I do from their retainers and they can manipulate market prices much more than I can. They have won on the ability to make and sell things that I may want to participate in.


I’m sure you or others or many people will find some semantic or nuance or whatever to pick me apart with. Go for it.

End of the day, this has the ability to affect me in ways that I don’t want. It may not affect you at all, and that’s ok.

[Rinuko]

What if PVE or PVP aren’t your focus in this game? Then what?

I'm omnicrafter before doing any PVE. I'm clearly P2W.

[Istaru]

I'm omnicrafter before doing any PVE. I'm clearly P2W.

What was your point in this?

[Mwynn]

Let me ask you this question. Lets pretend either of us is a omni crafter, who makes more money than the other. Then we also say the omni crafter has less inventory space and retainers than the person who is not, who make more gil? If you think making gil is pay to win, go for it, but it's not. It doesn't effect your pve battles or pvp. This game is highly based on pve. Where does gil get involved into that? You need to explain that in a very constructive way and explain in details how it's giving you wins in pve. 1 2 3 go!

Does that count for selling Clears? How many of that Gil is RMT actually? Do you know, neither do I.

If we already go into Pay2Win, we might step into this case aswell *whoops* - *swifts away*