Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[Rinuko]

Sure, gils are a means to an end though... A goal, if you will.

... ... ...

Are we really going to argue over what pay to win means? Can't we agree this is, in short, really bad practice? How can you justify the advantage a player has in the market so long as they pay an -extra- fee?

One thing is having an advantage via in-game mechanics, ie by playing the game. The other is getting advantages by doing things outside the game, in this case PAYING for it. Can you not see the issue here?

Advantage on MB for what? Premium user have the OPTION to make gil slightly faster or have a little more inventory space? lol

There is no limit, you pay for IRL money to bypass it.
So that is another P2W aspect.

We don't know that yet? Did they say you can buy coins or nuts with real money? I can't recall seeing that.

[Avatre]

We don't know that yet? Did they say you can buy coins or nuts with real money? I can't recall seeing that.

Additionally(pretty sure it was mentioned earlier in this thread that you could buy the coins/nuts through the app for money), do we know if it is unlimited purchases a day, or as some MMOs do, limit/question you if you exceed a certain number of purchases a day/week/month(though I have never heard of this type of thing for a mobile app...it's still a potential)?

[Rinuko]

Additionally(pretty sure it was mentioned earlier in this thread that you could buy the coins/nuts through the app for money), do we know if it is unlimited purchases a day, or as some MMOs do, limit/question you if you exceed a certain number of purchases a day/week/month(though I have never heard of this type of thing for a mobile app...it's still a potential)?

As in speculations then? Have SE said we can buy coins? Again, can't recall seeing or hearing this.

[Vstarstruck]

As in speculations then? Have SE said we can buy coins? Again, can't recall seeing or hearing this.

I went to bookmark this post, cuz im tried of hunting it down:

It's a misinterpretation of the slides.

In the slides they said searching the market and putting items for sale is both free and premium



BUT the next slides reveal how exactly that work, you can't sell or buy items in the market unless you use the new cash currency.

It's labeled as free because:



You get "kupo nuts" from daily login, I imagine 1 kupo nut = you can do 1 purchase/sale in the market every day, for premium it's 2 transactions per day.

Then they introduce an additional currency you can pay real money for which allows you to buy/sell items with no limit at an additional cost



In conclusion: they walled the entire market function behind a microtransaction (moogle coins) and you get 1 free coin per day (2 if premium)

THEY flat out said it in these slides, it is not speculation.

Retainers and app is pay to win

[akaneakki]

retainers and app is pay to win

Let me ask you this question. Lets pretend either of us is a omni crafter, who makes more money than the other. Then we also say the omni crafter has less inventory space and retainers than the person who is not, who make more gil? If you think making gil is pay to win, go for it, but it's not. It doesn't effect your pve battles or pvp. This game is highly based on pve. Where does gil get involved into that? You need to explain that in a very constructive way and explain in details how it's giving you wins in pve. 1 2 3 go!

[Istaru]

Let me ask you this question. Lets pretend either of us is a omni crafter, who makes more money than the other. Then we also say the omni crafter has less inventory space and retainers than the person who is not, who make more gil? If you think making gil is pay to win, go for it, but it's not. It doesn't effect your pve battles or pvp. This game is highly based on pve. Where does gil get involved into that? You need to explain that in a very constructive way and explain in details how it's giving you wins in pve. 1 2 3 go!

What if PVE or PVP aren’t your focus in this game? Then what?

[akaneakki]

What if PVE or PVP aren’t your focus in this game? Then what?

That's something I can't answer on, because I don't even know what the gil could possibly be used on to make it pay to win. So I will ask you the same question, if it wasn't pvp or pve focus in this game, would gil be pay to win and if so, explain to me how the system would work then also explain how the gil would get you more win.

I'm not sure why this is a debate. P2W is paying money to get an advantage in game. More retainers gives clear advantages in game. More market board access is an advantage in game. More storage is an advantage in game.

People trying to split hairs over how big an advantage it is have already conceded the point that it's an advantage of some kind, so it's already P2W.

I'm going to disagree with you, I'm not sure how more retainers gives more advantage in the game when you aren't following: omni crafter and if you are, then you mostlikely make a lot of gil with less retainers than others. It's how it's used and any smart player in this game would NEVER overflood mats/gear/items on MB, that makes the cost even lower in a shorter time and you make barely any proffit of it.
More glamour space? How is that pay to win? Does glam give you more advantage in pve or pvp? Let me ask you this question, what is the advantage of having more storage in game? What items do you put in there to make you win?

Does that count for selling Clears? How many of that Gil is RMT actually? Do you know, neither do I.

If we already go into Pay2Win, we might step into this case aswell *whoops* - *swifts away*

I don't really think it's completely pay to win. Pay to win in pve is where you can buy an item from cash shop to help you kill a boss/raid. That's an example, buying a run from people isn't pay to win, that's paying for a service than anything. It's like saying I give the controller to a friend of mine IRL to beat a boss for me and I give him 5 bucks to do it, it's not pay to win, I pay him for a service.

[Rinuko]

What if PVE or PVP aren’t your focus in this game? Then what?

I'm omnicrafter before doing any PVE. I'm clearly P2W.

[Mwynn]

Let me ask you this question. Lets pretend either of us is a omni crafter, who makes more money than the other. Then we also say the omni crafter has less inventory space and retainers than the person who is not, who make more gil? If you think making gil is pay to win, go for it, but it's not. It doesn't effect your pve battles or pvp. This game is highly based on pve. Where does gil get involved into that? You need to explain that in a very constructive way and explain in details how it's giving you wins in pve. 1 2 3 go!

Does that count for selling Clears? How many of that Gil is RMT actually? Do you know, neither do I.

If we already go into Pay2Win, we might step into this case aswell *whoops* - *swifts away*

[Friske]

Let me ask you this question. Lets pretend either of us is a omni crafter, who makes more money than the other. Then we also say the omni crafter has less inventory space and retainers than the person who is not, who make more gil? If you think making gil is pay to win, go for it, but it's not. It doesn't effect your pve battles or pvp. This game is highly based on pve. Where does gil get involved into that? You need to explain that in a very constructive way and explain in details how it's giving you wins in pve. 1 2 3 go!

What if PVE or PVP aren’t your focus in this game? Then what?

Absolutely agree with you. It's ok to have a preference in the sort of content you as an individual enjoy. And just as there's people who prioritise PvE and extract their enjoyment out of reaching the highest dps possible, there's also people who love piecing together perfect glamours, housing decorations, and focus more on crafting and building up their cash stack. It becomes a problem however, when people insist that 1 element trumps another in blatant disregard to what other people might prefer.
This is magnified even further with Yoshida flat out saying that he considers this game a themepark MMO with the intention of appealing to a vast variety of people. This is why there's gameplay elements that span from PvE to PvP, to gathering and crafting, to the personalisation of your appearance, the list goes on.

There's been a common trend that the importance of PvE content is set on a higher pedestal in comparison to other gameplay elements, which I suspect is why people don't seem to understand how extra inventory slots or extra retainers impact the game. But if they'd just consider how the game is enjoyed from many different perspectives, then maybe they'd be able to recognise how important it is to protect other areas of the game from the clutch of 'irl monetary advantage' shenanigans.