Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[Reynhart]

So if we take the time that I need to sell the stuff as the win, I win.

Yet again, you win...more gils. In a game that requires far less gils than any serious farmer can earn, even with the Entry account, because new competitive items are only released every 6 months.

Selling items on the market board is intrinsically competitive. If you have two items listed on the market, one each from a different player, both players are competing to sell that item.

You're right, but how many retainers you have is irrelevant. What changes is how your strategy, by selling maybe a little cheaper, or selling units or packs, etc...Economy is far more complicated than "more shop than a contender = more benefit"
And again, the only thing you gain are gils. Gils are not a goal.

[Odstarva]

Gils are not a goal.

Sure, gils are a means to an end though... A goal, if you will.

... ... ...

Are we really going to argue over what pay to win means? Can't we agree this is, in short, really bad practice? How can you justify the advantage a player has in the market so long as they pay an -extra- fee?

One thing is having an advantage via in-game mechanics, ie by playing the game. The other is getting advantages by doing things outside the game, in this case PAYING for it. Can you not see the issue here?

[Rinuko]

Sure, gils are a means to an end though... A goal, if you will.

... ... ...

Are we really going to argue over what pay to win means? Can't we agree this is, in short, really bad practice? How can you justify the advantage a player has in the market so long as they pay an -extra- fee?

One thing is having an advantage via in-game mechanics, ie by playing the game. The other is getting advantages by doing things outside the game, in this case PAYING for it. Can you not see the issue here?

Advantage on MB for what? Premium user have the OPTION to make gil slightly faster or have a little more inventory space? lol

There is no limit, you pay for IRL money to bypass it.
So that is another P2W aspect.

We don't know that yet? Did they say you can buy coins or nuts with real money? I can't recall seeing that.

[Avatre]

We don't know that yet? Did they say you can buy coins or nuts with real money? I can't recall seeing that.

Additionally(pretty sure it was mentioned earlier in this thread that you could buy the coins/nuts through the app for money), do we know if it is unlimited purchases a day, or as some MMOs do, limit/question you if you exceed a certain number of purchases a day/week/month(though I have never heard of this type of thing for a mobile app...it's still a potential)?

[Rinuko]

Additionally(pretty sure it was mentioned earlier in this thread that you could buy the coins/nuts through the app for money), do we know if it is unlimited purchases a day, or as some MMOs do, limit/question you if you exceed a certain number of purchases a day/week/month(though I have never heard of this type of thing for a mobile app...it's still a potential)?

As in speculations then? Have SE said we can buy coins? Again, can't recall seeing or hearing this.

[Vstarstruck]

As in speculations then? Have SE said we can buy coins? Again, can't recall seeing or hearing this.

I went to bookmark this post, cuz im tried of hunting it down:

It's a misinterpretation of the slides.

In the slides they said searching the market and putting items for sale is both free and premium



BUT the next slides reveal how exactly that work, you can't sell or buy items in the market unless you use the new cash currency.

It's labeled as free because:



You get "kupo nuts" from daily login, I imagine 1 kupo nut = you can do 1 purchase/sale in the market every day, for premium it's 2 transactions per day.

Then they introduce an additional currency you can pay real money for which allows you to buy/sell items with no limit at an additional cost



In conclusion: they walled the entire market function behind a microtransaction (moogle coins) and you get 1 free coin per day (2 if premium)

THEY flat out said it in these slides, it is not speculation.

Retainers and app is pay to win

[akaneakki]

retainers and app is pay to win

Let me ask you this question. Lets pretend either of us is a omni crafter, who makes more money than the other. Then we also say the omni crafter has less inventory space and retainers than the person who is not, who make more gil? If you think making gil is pay to win, go for it, but it's not. It doesn't effect your pve battles or pvp. This game is highly based on pve. Where does gil get involved into that? You need to explain that in a very constructive way and explain in details how it's giving you wins in pve. 1 2 3 go!

[Rinuko]

I went to bookmark this post, cuz im tried of hunting it down:

THEY flat out said it in these slides, it is not speculation.

Retainers and app is pay to win

All i can read is we can give them coins, not how to obtain said coin unless there is something lost in translation.

[Reynhart]

Sure, gils are a means to an end though... A goal, if you will.

No, if it's a mean to an end, that's precisely not a goal by itself.
Please give me a goal (i.e something to spend those gils on) where you're at a clear competitive advantage by having additionnal retainers.

[Alleo]

Yet again, you win...

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Yes and for some getting Gil is their goal in the game and thus they get an advantage if they pay real money. Just because you dont have it as a goal does not make it a goal. And just because of a 6 month gap does not make this less of an advantage. I mean other games with P2W items also dont constantly update every month.

Another example: Black desert online a mostly F2P has different outfits for real money with different stats. People were annoyed that such a thing was sold. It is a game with PVP as a big focus and yet they sold items with stats for that. BUT they also sold gear that made fishing and other stuff easier. Something that is not part of the endgame. But people also saw it as P2W because it gave people an advantage. Just because its not the main focus does not mean that it cant be P2W.