Add Blue Mages Already

[Usho]

1. Important blue magics would be learned by fighting a story quest enemy.
2. Heavy armor is not a tanking requirement. See evasion tanks, illusion tanks, and forcefield tanks from other games.
3. Blue mages have historically also used clubs, whips, rods, and other weapons.
4. HP pools are irrelevant with proper damage resistance or autoregen buffs.
5. INT can be a fine main stat. See (4).
6. Pure opinion.

In short, not everybody shares a narrow view of what a tank "should" be, and given proper care, BLU will make an excellent mage tank and draw more career mages to the tanking role.

1. Not all will and you're fooling yourself if you think that.
2. In FFXIV, all mages wear caster gear and its shared. It's a mage, not a tank. Never was a tank, and probably/hopefully never will be a tank.
3. Sources? FFV and FFXI they used swords.
4. Without a good HP pool the BLU will not survive even with damage resistance/reduction. They might not get a auto-regen.
5. Something we agree on, cept "your" #4
6. Also YOUR pure opinion dude.

Ninja Edit: For #2 People said the same for SAM. Remember the SAM will be a tank debate? The reality: It's a MELEE DPS.

Ninja Edit 2: Yes, Quistis used Whips in FF8 but that kind of weapon patheic and never did any good damage unless you Junction'd good stats on her whips. And even then, they were a poor choice. Her whips were pure fan service and nothing more. Your point is a bit moot. Quina using Forks also bad cause the damage was RANDOM. Very poor choice in weaponary. If they are gonna make characters BLU's give them weapons they were originally designed to use, swords/staves.

Also, Kimhari was a variable in FFX. You could make him into pure blue caster dps or melee blu caster dps. He NEVER made for a good tank. Strago in FFVI was a pure blue mage in FFVI. While he didn't use swords, he used what a mage character would typical use for combat, a stave. But he never made for a good tank either.

You can't use FF8, FF9 or FFX as sources. Only FFV and FFXI gave us what square designed the class to be.

In short, not narrow mindedness, just common fact and history. Mages don't make good tanks in this game. This isn't FFXI where there are a lot of variables added in.

We done here? Good. /blist GG

[Rongway]

There are so many "I don't see how it can work because of spells" posts. They are unfounded. There are instant spells. Lots of them. Regen, Aspected Benefic, Flash, Unmend, Unleash, Scathe.


As for "how would a caster tank be any different from PLD or DRK", most of the changes are flavor. Some people just don't want to be running around in heavy armor and carrying a big sword. Some people want magic to be their primary weapon. The gameplay doesn't have to be completely different, but the job aesthetics and personality do.

[Rongway]

1. Blue Mages need to learn their spells from enemies (learning and tanking at the same time would be annoying and would be even worse for newbies who aren't skilled enough).

1. Important blue magics would be learned by fighting a story quest enemy.

1. Not all will and you're fooling yourself if you think that.

In Final Fantasy XIV, Disciples of War and of Magic learn all their actions from either levels or quests. There is no precedent for your dismissal of this fact. Placing Learnable blue magics inside quests would also not conflict with the core of Blue Mage.

2. Blue Mages aren't good in heavy equipment (and even Yoshi-P can't make them look good in armor as it wouldn't even called "mage" anymore)

2. Heavy armor is not a tanking requirement. See evasion tanks, illusion tanks, and forcefield tanks from other games.

2. In FFXIV, all mages wear caster gear and its shared. It's a mage, not a tank. Never was a tank, and probably/hopefully never will be a tank.

Your argument displays a wide miss of the point. Obviously I expect blue mage to wear mage gear. Heavy armor warrior jobs are not the only tanking paradigm in fantasy gaming.

3. Blue Mages uses swords and maybe shields (if going by FFXI). We have a sword and shield job...it's called Paladin.

3. Blue mages have historically also used clubs, whips, rods, and other weapons.

3. Sources? FFV and FFXI they used swords.

FFVI - Strago Magus used rods and clubs. His ultimate weapon was the Stardust Rod.
FFVIII - Quistis Trepe's weapons were whips.
FFIX - Quina Quen used forks.
FFXI - Blue Mages could use swords and clubs.

4. Judging from the HP pool of the other 3 tanks, BLU isn't gonna have enough to help it survive tanking a huge group of mobs even with VIT melds.

4. HP pools are irrelevant with proper damage resistance or autoregen buffs.

4. Without a good HP pool the BLU will not survive even with damage resistance/reduction. They might not get a auto-regen.

Again, you're basing your argument on a heavy armor soak tank paradigm. A magic soak tank with magically inflated defense wouldn't take any more damage than a heavy armor soak tank. There are even other ways to survive, because magic. Historical blue magics have included plenty of defensive and restorative techniques, as well as offensive techniques.

6. And this is imho, Blue Mage just doesn't meet the qualifications of being a tanking job. It's more valuable as a DPS (or in this case, a melee caster DPS). DRK imo is just as bad as a tank, and imo it should have been a dps, but they had no other original ideas for a new kind of tank for HW, so they figured: "Hey! Lets make this old dps job into a tank! What could possibly go wrong? Ha Ha!"

6. Pure opinion.

6. Also YOUR pure opinion dude.

Well, no. I've backed mine up with historical data and an understanding that there are people who would play a mage tank specifically because it is not a heavy armor physical job (see previous pages in this thread).

We done here? Good. /blist GG

Not in the slightest, but good job /blisting me; maybe now I'll get to argue with someone rational instead.

[Tanathya]

Love it when people pull whatever they want from the series history when FFXIV is known for twisting it however they see fit. Just a reminder, tanking as such has never been a thing, except for maybe warriors and knights/paladins, the former with Provoke, the latter with Cover.

[Tint]

1. Not all will and you're fooling yourself if you think that.

YOU are fooling yourself, if you think SE will do any originally stuff for BLU...

2. In FFXIV, all mages wear caster gear and its shared. It's a mage, not a tank. Never was a tank, and probably/hopefully never will be a tank.

Yes, and all meeles wear the same gear too. ooops...
they can introduce new gear for BLU, or they just put INT on the tank gear because SE is lazy... hellooo tank in a robe(?) also healers are mages too, with different gear, with different stats...

4. Without a good HP pool the BLU will not survive even with damage resistance/reduction. They might not get a auto-regen.

the only reason this will not work is because it's totally OP. a healer can cap the low HP pool of a BLU with literally no healing at all, while the BLU benefits from a strong dmg reduction. this will make healers even more useless...

You can't use FF8, FF9 or FFX as sources. Only FFV and FFXI gave us what square designed the class to be.

so they have four different designs for the class? why not add a fifth? a BLU can adapt to new concepts very well i guess^^

We done here? Good. /blist GG

blacklisting people with different opinions? please add me too ^^/

[MicahZerrshia]

What if they....wait for it...wait fooor it....

make it all 3

WHAT?

HOW COULD THEY?

OMG THATS INSANITY!

YOU ARE A FOOL!

I know I know but hear me out.

Blue is a magic specialist that pulls abilities for creatures in the world around them and we have creatures that could in their own way be considered one of the 3 archetypes we have. So blue could have 3 "stances" depending on what abilities they draw from. So we could have a blue tank, healer or dps by simply changing out the spell set. It would be kindda funky with stats but our stats are so simplistic anyway that its an easy go around. Use int for instance, improves dps in dps stance, healing could scale off it instead of mind in heal stance and could boost hp and def like vit in tank stance. secondary stats are basically all stacked the same for the most part. So single gear sets for blue all work. Or they could replace primary stats with a unique one and give it its own gear.

It would satisfy all types of players and it would allow for people to heal or dps or tank as needed. These stances could also be locked in instances so no one trolls or abuses the system.

They could also do the same for dancer if you really want to go there. dnc in xi could switch between the 3 roles for the most part.

[Ariel_Valmont]

I’d play a BLU tank, sounds refreshing, let me hold enmity with spells!

[Seku]

. Only FFV and FFXI gave us what square designed the class to be.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Mighty_Guard - 25% defense increase, haste, regen
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Barrier_Tusk - damage reduction and by passes the soft cap of 50%, no other job in 11 can do this via spells or naturally
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Cocoon - 50% defense increase
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Metallic_Body - Stone skin
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Occultation - Can take up to 12 single target hits, auto attacks or TP moves and reduces the damage to 0.

Not quite too sure why you're trying to say that BLU can't be a tank then you turn around and use FF11 as one of the main inspirations for the job, when it's been able to be turned into a tank since Day One and has always been a favored job for low man content and currently at 99 can tank just about any boss in the game that does not have a mechanic to pentalize a party for having a Blue mage as a member (Yes, SE has made bosses that will wipe a group simply because you have a BLU in the party).

BLU has the best spell rotation in the game currently to maintain hate.
BLU brought forth the first consistent cleave parties in FF11 ( Able to pull multiple monsters and kill them all solo, once only done through Special abilities that lasted 2hrs with summoner....)
BLU has some of the best defensive spells in the game.
BLU can go over the - physical and - magical damage taken down cap.

If anything FF11 could be used as a basis for BLU as a tank in 14. But on the same token it could also be the basis for a Healer or DPS too or any mixture of the 3.

[Ariel_Valmont]

I am sure we could come up with a fun and interesting lore reason, for why BLU spells are all instant cast or extremely short cast compared to other mages.

[Seraphor]

I am sure we could come up with a fun and interesting lore reason, for why BLU spells are all instant cast or extremely short cast compared to other mages.

There's already some lore that could fit an original interpretation of a blue mage, and work for a tank.

Magitek.

Garleans magitek is basically the repurposing and replication the powers of primals and beastkin.
Think Ultima Weapon using the essences of Ifrit, Titan and Garuda but on a smaller scale.

Utilising a kind of magitek force field that absorbs damage and converts in into aether, can translate hits taken into magic.
Blue flavoured magic.

Could also explain it being a mage in heavy armour and not requiring cast times, because it's magitek and not incantations and whatnot.