Add Blue Mages Already

[Rongway]

1. Important blue magics would be learned by fighting a story quest enemy.
2. Heavy armor is not a tanking requirement. See evasion tanks, illusion tanks, and forcefield tanks from other games.
3. Blue mages have historically also used clubs, whips, rods, and other weapons.
4. HP pools are irrelevant with proper damage resistance or autoregen buffs.
5. INT can be a fine main stat. See (4).
6. Pure opinion.

In short, not everybody shares a narrow view of what a tank "should" be, and given proper care, BLU will make an excellent mage tank and draw more career mages to the tanking role.

[Usho]

1. Important blue magics would be learned by fighting a story quest enemy.
2. Heavy armor is not a tanking requirement. See evasion tanks, illusion tanks, and forcefield tanks from other games.
3. Blue mages have historically also used clubs, whips, rods, and other weapons.
4. HP pools are irrelevant with proper damage resistance or autoregen buffs.
5. INT can be a fine main stat. See (4).
6. Pure opinion.

In short, not everybody shares a narrow view of what a tank "should" be, and given proper care, BLU will make an excellent mage tank and draw more career mages to the tanking role.

1. Not all will and you're fooling yourself if you think that.
2. In FFXIV, all mages wear caster gear and its shared. It's a mage, not a tank. Never was a tank, and probably/hopefully never will be a tank.
3. Sources? FFV and FFXI they used swords.
4. Without a good HP pool the BLU will not survive even with damage resistance/reduction. They might not get a auto-regen.
5. Something we agree on, cept "your" #4
6. Also YOUR pure opinion dude.

Ninja Edit: For #2 People said the same for SAM. Remember the SAM will be a tank debate? The reality: It's a MELEE DPS.

Ninja Edit 2: Yes, Quistis used Whips in FF8 but that kind of weapon patheic and never did any good damage unless you Junction'd good stats on her whips. And even then, they were a poor choice. Her whips were pure fan service and nothing more. Your point is a bit moot. Quina using Forks also bad cause the damage was RANDOM. Very poor choice in weaponary. If they are gonna make characters BLU's give them weapons they were originally designed to use, swords/staves.

Also, Kimhari was a variable in FFX. You could make him into pure blue caster dps or melee blu caster dps. He NEVER made for a good tank. Strago in FFVI was a pure blue mage in FFVI. While he didn't use swords, he used what a mage character would typical use for combat, a stave. But he never made for a good tank either.

You can't use FF8, FF9 or FFX as sources. Only FFV and FFXI gave us what square designed the class to be.

In short, not narrow mindedness, just common fact and history. Mages don't make good tanks in this game. This isn't FFXI where there are a lot of variables added in.

We done here? Good. /blist GG

[Tint]

1. Not all will and you're fooling yourself if you think that.

YOU are fooling yourself, if you think SE will do any originally stuff for BLU...

2. In FFXIV, all mages wear caster gear and its shared. It's a mage, not a tank. Never was a tank, and probably/hopefully never will be a tank.

Yes, and all meeles wear the same gear too. ooops...
they can introduce new gear for BLU, or they just put INT on the tank gear because SE is lazy... hellooo tank in a robe(?) also healers are mages too, with different gear, with different stats...

4. Without a good HP pool the BLU will not survive even with damage resistance/reduction. They might not get a auto-regen.

the only reason this will not work is because it's totally OP. a healer can cap the low HP pool of a BLU with literally no healing at all, while the BLU benefits from a strong dmg reduction. this will make healers even more useless...

You can't use FF8, FF9 or FFX as sources. Only FFV and FFXI gave us what square designed the class to be.

so they have four different designs for the class? why not add a fifth? a BLU can adapt to new concepts very well i guess^^

We done here? Good. /blist GG

blacklisting people with different opinions? please add me too ^^/

[Seku]

. Only FFV and FFXI gave us what square designed the class to be.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Mighty_Guard - 25% defense increase, haste, regen
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Barrier_Tusk - damage reduction and by passes the soft cap of 50%, no other job in 11 can do this via spells or naturally
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Cocoon - 50% defense increase
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Metallic_Body - Stone skin
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Occultation - Can take up to 12 single target hits, auto attacks or TP moves and reduces the damage to 0.

Not quite too sure why you're trying to say that BLU can't be a tank then you turn around and use FF11 as one of the main inspirations for the job, when it's been able to be turned into a tank since Day One and has always been a favored job for low man content and currently at 99 can tank just about any boss in the game that does not have a mechanic to pentalize a party for having a Blue mage as a member (Yes, SE has made bosses that will wipe a group simply because you have a BLU in the party).

BLU has the best spell rotation in the game currently to maintain hate.
BLU brought forth the first consistent cleave parties in FF11 ( Able to pull multiple monsters and kill them all solo, once only done through Special abilities that lasted 2hrs with summoner....)
BLU has some of the best defensive spells in the game.
BLU can go over the - physical and - magical damage taken down cap.

If anything FF11 could be used as a basis for BLU as a tank in 14. But on the same token it could also be the basis for a Healer or DPS too or any mixture of the 3.

[Cidel]

...and currently at 99 can tank just about any boss in the game that does not have a mechanic to penalize a party for having a Blue mage as a member (Yes, SE has made bosses that will wipe a group simply because you have a BLU in the party).

I don't have a stake in this discussion (yet), but could you elaborate on which enemies did this? I'm genuinely curious and might read up on it later.


It's seems like a terribly specific and rude move to design fights that way.

[Seku]

I don't have a stake in this discussion (yet), but could you elaborate on which enemies did this? I'm genuinely curious and might read up on it later.


It's seems like a terribly specific and rude move to design fights that way.

November 2017's Ambuscade. The boss for that months rotation would only have access to a move known as "quenching hammer" if any buff was on a party member and if BLU, RUN, PLD, or DRK was in the party. This would then drain the parties MP down to near 0 and in most cases 1-hit koed players that were not defensively geared. Unlike 14 where the super moves are predictable, 11 just throws them out at random. The main method of dealing with the boss just ended up being storing TP and having people skill chain instead while also keeping the Bosses TP at 0.

The only reason they did it is because currently a geared BLU can do anything (Heal, Tank, Melee-DPS, Magic-DPS) and is taken to just about every event. The only limit is that you have to know prior to going into the fight what your role is.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Ambuscade_Archive

[Usho]

Not quite too sure why you're trying to say that BLU can't be a tank then you turn around and use FF11 as one of the main inspirations for the job, when it's been able to be turned into a tank since Day One and has always been a favored job for low man content and currently at 99 can tank just about any boss in the game that does not have a mechanic to pentalize a party for having a Blue mage as a member (Yes, SE has made bosses that will wipe a group simply because you have a BLU in the party).

Cause it won't. We had this debate about SAM pre-SB remember? Blu is a MAGE. Look at FF history and lore. BLU was never made for the tanking role despite having defensive and restorative spells, it's a CASTER.

If you're tanking a large group of mobs, do you think they are gonna just give you time to cast your spells while you attempt to hold aggro? Haha No. Your spells will get interrupted constantly and not even surecast will be enough with it's meh 30 sec CD for a 5 sec duration.

You can try to justify it being a tank all you want guys, but the reality is it's not and it won't. Just as much as you want Dancer to be a healer, it won't. But you can live in denial if you want. Remember the SAM tank debates? People complained and wanted it to be a tank. Guess what? It's a MELEE DPS. SAMs wear light/not so heavy armor and have some tankish kind of skills but its not a tank is it? DRK is a given as its a DPS but they probably wanted it to be a tank since Cecil's DRK in FFIV was more so a tank, while in FFXI they were a DPS job.

BLU is a Mage. Mages make for terrible tanks, especially in this game. That is the reality.

FFXI was bit more versatile since their was no real exact balance with the jobs, but even in FFXI BLU was never really tank material and most of time, ppl brought in blu for procs and their chain bursts. But in FFXIV, the game is plagued by the trinity system, there's no "subjobs" and learning blu spells in this game for sure won't be as interesting as in FFXI and FFV. And getting interrupted while trying to cast a spell, while also trying to hold onto aggro is a bad decision and it will be especially bad for newbies.

Blu has always been pure melee caster dps, and just like with SAM, if you think it will be a tank, then you'll be proven wrong, again.


GG.

[Jonnycbad]

Blu has always been pure melee caster dps, and just like with SAM, if you think it will be a tank, then you'll be proven wrong, again.
GG.

FF5: Blue Mage had average Strength and could equip a couple swords, but were better at casting.

FF6: Strago was a pure caster and his main weapon were Staves/Rods, so no...he wasn't a melee caster.
FF7: Enemy Skill materia could be used by anyone so I guess anyone could be a caster/dps.
FF8: Quistis was a jack-of-all-trades in terms of stats, but again, anyone could be a melee caster dps.
FF9: Quina had Fork and used Blue Magic, but his/her Strength growth and Fork damage was the 3rd lowest in the game, only above Vivi/Eiko.
FF10: Kimahri was a melee/caster I guess so this is true.
FF11: BLU was a melee/caster, so this is true.
FFTA: BLU was a melee caster
FFX-2: Magic Gunner was a total caster and didn't melee at all (weapon was a pistol).

So no, BLU was not always a pure melee caster dps.

Also, DRK was never a tank except in FF: Dimensions. DRK converts HP into Damage in every game it's been in except XIV, where it was changed to MP to make them a viable tank. Same could be said for BLU if made into a tank. They could make their main stat VIT, and their spells scale with the caster's "Vitality" or their inner essence combined with souls of enemy's they've absorbed/copied

[Lord_Zlatan]

DRK is a given as its a DPS but they probably wanted it to be a tank since

you undid your own argument right there.

SE can and will do whatever they want. They made the quintessential melee DPS class from another game into a tank.

[Seku]

Cause it won't. We had this debate about SAM pre-SB remember? Blu is a MAGE. Look at FF history and lore. BLU was never made for the tanking role despite having defensive and restorative spells, it's a CASTER.

What Lore? I don't recall any FF in the main number series (ie: not tatics) outside of 11 actually setting up lore for Blu outside of it being a job that learns monsters abilities and can be filled in as any role.

If you're tanking a large group of mobs, do you think they are gonna just give you time to cast your spells while you attempt to hold aggro? Haha No. Your spells will get interrupted constantly and not even surecast will be enough with it's meh 30 sec CD for a 5 sec duration.

Why would they give BLU long cast times? If you're going by FF11 standards a good portion of their physical spells are actually less than a second. A good deal of their defensive spells are less than a second. There are also traits in the game obtained either by leveling or on gear, both in FF11 and 14 that prevent spellcasting interruptions.

You can try to justify it being a tank all you want guys, but the reality is it's not and it won't. Just as much as you want Dancer to be a healer, it won't. But you can live in denial if you want. Remember the SAM tank debates? People complained and wanted it to be a tank. Guess what? It's a MELEE DPS. SAMs wear light/not so heavy armor and have some tankish kind of skills but its not a tank is it? DRK is a given as its a DPS but they probably wanted it to be a tank since Cecil's DRK in FFIV was more so a tank, while in FFXI they were a DPS job.

No one cares what type of armor they use. Rune Fencer in FF11 (the same FF you base BLU off of) uses light weight armor as well, it actually shares it's non Job specific gear with BLU and it's one of the go - to tanks, It also has to rotate Phalanx, Crusade, Regens, and Temper up all of which take at least 3 seconds to cast. The same can be said about ninja as it has been a tanking power house since day one in 11 who had to use long casting times to maintain hate and defend itself, now it's a DPS in 14. Different games have different roles for each of the jobs. Cecil's DRK in FF4 being a tank? You mean the tank that kills itself to do AOE damage? Yeah no. If anything SE took the Tank design of Rune Fencer from FF11 and slapped Dark Knight's Aesthetics all over it. A tank whoms primary weapon is a 2-handed sword and who focuses on magical defense.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Rune_Fencer

BLU is a Mage. Mages make for terrible tanks, especially in this game. That is the reality.
FFXI was bit more versatile since their was no real exact balance with the jobs, but even in FFXI BLU was never really tank material and most of time, ppl brought in blu for procs and their chain bursts. But in FFXIV, the game is plagued by the trinity system, there's no "subjobs" and learning blu spells in this game for sure won't be as interesting as in FFXI and FFV. And getting interrupted while trying to cast a spell, while also trying to hold onto aggro is a bad decision and it will be especially bad for newbies.

Mages make for terrible tanks because they've all been designed this way currently in 14, this is reality. Just like how all jobs that were not design with the ability to main tank in 14 will die in a single tank buster in just about any raid. This is reality and your logic is flawed. Why? Because they could always design and implement a mage that can tank.

Sounds like you only played BLU during the abyessa era. As no one really did skill chains at the time of Blue mages release and nothing "proct" for at least 3-5 years later when Abyessa was released. During it's initial release the good thing that stood out about Blu was it's ability to chain head butt back to back and keep a mob stunned as well as being able to easily do a small burst of damage to enemies with extremely low defense that also drained their MP dry. This is why you'll never be able to find any end game content that took BLU to anything outside of instance events for that period (Limbus, Dynamis, Assaults, Salvage), where it could at this point in time Tank, Back Up heal, Mediocre DPS. In anything else they were forced to SA(force crit) cannonballs, which other well-geared and knowledgeable players destroyed them. However as they've given it more spells it's ability to tank, dps, and heal have also gone up with it eventually making it able to replace any role in the party assuming the BLU was geared for said role and had spells for said role.

Blu has always been pure melee caster dps, and just like with SAM, if you think it will be a tank, then you'll be proven wrong, again.

Then why can it both heal and tank along side the the other roles you just mentioned in almost every incarnation of the job? Tanking mainly being relevant for FF11 since there was no way to really "tank" other than the flimsy and random cover skill in any other FF? Rather it be a tank or not is up in the air. But your reasoning for it not being able to be such is flimsy at best.

This game pigeon holes all tanks into heavy armor. As a side note, if Blue Mage were a tank in caster gear, they would potentially be behind in gearing compared to existing tanks because then they'd have to compete with the 3 other casters for gear drops in content.

And this is the only valid point as to why BLU wouldn't be a tank in 14, and is more based around what lengths they'd be willing to go to actually make it into a tank. Rather than "if they can"