Add Blue Mages Already

[Usho]

Not quite too sure why you're trying to say that BLU can't be a tank then you turn around and use FF11 as one of the main inspirations for the job, when it's been able to be turned into a tank since Day One and has always been a favored job for low man content and currently at 99 can tank just about any boss in the game that does not have a mechanic to pentalize a party for having a Blue mage as a member (Yes, SE has made bosses that will wipe a group simply because you have a BLU in the party).

Cause it won't. We had this debate about SAM pre-SB remember? Blu is a MAGE. Look at FF history and lore. BLU was never made for the tanking role despite having defensive and restorative spells, it's a CASTER.

If you're tanking a large group of mobs, do you think they are gonna just give you time to cast your spells while you attempt to hold aggro? Haha No. Your spells will get interrupted constantly and not even surecast will be enough with it's meh 30 sec CD for a 5 sec duration.

You can try to justify it being a tank all you want guys, but the reality is it's not and it won't. Just as much as you want Dancer to be a healer, it won't. But you can live in denial if you want. Remember the SAM tank debates? People complained and wanted it to be a tank. Guess what? It's a MELEE DPS. SAMs wear light/not so heavy armor and have some tankish kind of skills but its not a tank is it? DRK is a given as its a DPS but they probably wanted it to be a tank since Cecil's DRK in FFIV was more so a tank, while in FFXI they were a DPS job.

BLU is a Mage. Mages make for terrible tanks, especially in this game. That is the reality.

FFXI was bit more versatile since their was no real exact balance with the jobs, but even in FFXI BLU was never really tank material and most of time, ppl brought in blu for procs and their chain bursts. But in FFXIV, the game is plagued by the trinity system, there's no "subjobs" and learning blu spells in this game for sure won't be as interesting as in FFXI and FFV. And getting interrupted while trying to cast a spell, while also trying to hold onto aggro is a bad decision and it will be especially bad for newbies.

Blu has always been pure melee caster dps, and just like with SAM, if you think it will be a tank, then you'll be proven wrong, again.


GG.

[Jonnycbad]

Blu has always been pure melee caster dps, and just like with SAM, if you think it will be a tank, then you'll be proven wrong, again.
GG.

FF5: Blue Mage had average Strength and could equip a couple swords, but were better at casting.

FF6: Strago was a pure caster and his main weapon were Staves/Rods, so no...he wasn't a melee caster.
FF7: Enemy Skill materia could be used by anyone so I guess anyone could be a caster/dps.
FF8: Quistis was a jack-of-all-trades in terms of stats, but again, anyone could be a melee caster dps.
FF9: Quina had Fork and used Blue Magic, but his/her Strength growth and Fork damage was the 3rd lowest in the game, only above Vivi/Eiko.
FF10: Kimahri was a melee/caster I guess so this is true.
FF11: BLU was a melee/caster, so this is true.
FFTA: BLU was a melee caster
FFX-2: Magic Gunner was a total caster and didn't melee at all (weapon was a pistol).

So no, BLU was not always a pure melee caster dps.

Also, DRK was never a tank except in FF: Dimensions. DRK converts HP into Damage in every game it's been in except XIV, where it was changed to MP to make them a viable tank. Same could be said for BLU if made into a tank. They could make their main stat VIT, and their spells scale with the caster's "Vitality" or their inner essence combined with souls of enemy's they've absorbed/copied

[Lord_Zlatan]

DRK is a given as its a DPS but they probably wanted it to be a tank since

you undid your own argument right there.

SE can and will do whatever they want. They made the quintessential melee DPS class from another game into a tank.

[Seku]

Cause it won't. We had this debate about SAM pre-SB remember? Blu is a MAGE. Look at FF history and lore. BLU was never made for the tanking role despite having defensive and restorative spells, it's a CASTER.

What Lore? I don't recall any FF in the main number series (ie: not tatics) outside of 11 actually setting up lore for Blu outside of it being a job that learns monsters abilities and can be filled in as any role.

If you're tanking a large group of mobs, do you think they are gonna just give you time to cast your spells while you attempt to hold aggro? Haha No. Your spells will get interrupted constantly and not even surecast will be enough with it's meh 30 sec CD for a 5 sec duration.

Why would they give BLU long cast times? If you're going by FF11 standards a good portion of their physical spells are actually less than a second. A good deal of their defensive spells are less than a second. There are also traits in the game obtained either by leveling or on gear, both in FF11 and 14 that prevent spellcasting interruptions.

You can try to justify it being a tank all you want guys, but the reality is it's not and it won't. Just as much as you want Dancer to be a healer, it won't. But you can live in denial if you want. Remember the SAM tank debates? People complained and wanted it to be a tank. Guess what? It's a MELEE DPS. SAMs wear light/not so heavy armor and have some tankish kind of skills but its not a tank is it? DRK is a given as its a DPS but they probably wanted it to be a tank since Cecil's DRK in FFIV was more so a tank, while in FFXI they were a DPS job.

No one cares what type of armor they use. Rune Fencer in FF11 (the same FF you base BLU off of) uses light weight armor as well, it actually shares it's non Job specific gear with BLU and it's one of the go - to tanks, It also has to rotate Phalanx, Crusade, Regens, and Temper up all of which take at least 3 seconds to cast. The same can be said about ninja as it has been a tanking power house since day one in 11 who had to use long casting times to maintain hate and defend itself, now it's a DPS in 14. Different games have different roles for each of the jobs. Cecil's DRK in FF4 being a tank? You mean the tank that kills itself to do AOE damage? Yeah no. If anything SE took the Tank design of Rune Fencer from FF11 and slapped Dark Knight's Aesthetics all over it. A tank whoms primary weapon is a 2-handed sword and who focuses on magical defense.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Rune_Fencer

BLU is a Mage. Mages make for terrible tanks, especially in this game. That is the reality.
FFXI was bit more versatile since their was no real exact balance with the jobs, but even in FFXI BLU was never really tank material and most of time, ppl brought in blu for procs and their chain bursts. But in FFXIV, the game is plagued by the trinity system, there's no "subjobs" and learning blu spells in this game for sure won't be as interesting as in FFXI and FFV. And getting interrupted while trying to cast a spell, while also trying to hold onto aggro is a bad decision and it will be especially bad for newbies.

Mages make for terrible tanks because they've all been designed this way currently in 14, this is reality. Just like how all jobs that were not design with the ability to main tank in 14 will die in a single tank buster in just about any raid. This is reality and your logic is flawed. Why? Because they could always design and implement a mage that can tank.

Sounds like you only played BLU during the abyessa era. As no one really did skill chains at the time of Blue mages release and nothing "proct" for at least 3-5 years later when Abyessa was released. During it's initial release the good thing that stood out about Blu was it's ability to chain head butt back to back and keep a mob stunned as well as being able to easily do a small burst of damage to enemies with extremely low defense that also drained their MP dry. This is why you'll never be able to find any end game content that took BLU to anything outside of instance events for that period (Limbus, Dynamis, Assaults, Salvage), where it could at this point in time Tank, Back Up heal, Mediocre DPS. In anything else they were forced to SA(force crit) cannonballs, which other well-geared and knowledgeable players destroyed them. However as they've given it more spells it's ability to tank, dps, and heal have also gone up with it eventually making it able to replace any role in the party assuming the BLU was geared for said role and had spells for said role.

Blu has always been pure melee caster dps, and just like with SAM, if you think it will be a tank, then you'll be proven wrong, again.

Then why can it both heal and tank along side the the other roles you just mentioned in almost every incarnation of the job? Tanking mainly being relevant for FF11 since there was no way to really "tank" other than the flimsy and random cover skill in any other FF? Rather it be a tank or not is up in the air. But your reasoning for it not being able to be such is flimsy at best.

This game pigeon holes all tanks into heavy armor. As a side note, if Blue Mage were a tank in caster gear, they would potentially be behind in gearing compared to existing tanks because then they'd have to compete with the 3 other casters for gear drops in content.

And this is the only valid point as to why BLU wouldn't be a tank in 14, and is more based around what lengths they'd be willing to go to actually make it into a tank. Rather than "if they can"

[Rongway]

1. Blue Mages need to learn their spells from enemies (learning and tanking at the same time would be annoying and would be even worse for newbies who aren't skilled enough).

1. Important blue magics would be learned by fighting a story quest enemy.

1. Not all will and you're fooling yourself if you think that.

In Final Fantasy XIV, Disciples of War and of Magic learn all their actions from either levels or quests. There is no precedent for your dismissal of this fact. Placing Learnable blue magics inside quests would also not conflict with the core of Blue Mage.

2. Blue Mages aren't good in heavy equipment (and even Yoshi-P can't make them look good in armor as it wouldn't even called "mage" anymore)

2. Heavy armor is not a tanking requirement. See evasion tanks, illusion tanks, and forcefield tanks from other games.

2. In FFXIV, all mages wear caster gear and its shared. It's a mage, not a tank. Never was a tank, and probably/hopefully never will be a tank.

Your argument displays a wide miss of the point. Obviously I expect blue mage to wear mage gear. Heavy armor warrior jobs are not the only tanking paradigm in fantasy gaming.

3. Blue Mages uses swords and maybe shields (if going by FFXI). We have a sword and shield job...it's called Paladin.

3. Blue mages have historically also used clubs, whips, rods, and other weapons.

3. Sources? FFV and FFXI they used swords.

FFVI - Strago Magus used rods and clubs. His ultimate weapon was the Stardust Rod.
FFVIII - Quistis Trepe's weapons were whips.
FFIX - Quina Quen used forks.
FFXI - Blue Mages could use swords and clubs.

4. Judging from the HP pool of the other 3 tanks, BLU isn't gonna have enough to help it survive tanking a huge group of mobs even with VIT melds.

4. HP pools are irrelevant with proper damage resistance or autoregen buffs.

4. Without a good HP pool the BLU will not survive even with damage resistance/reduction. They might not get a auto-regen.

Again, you're basing your argument on a heavy armor soak tank paradigm. A magic soak tank with magically inflated defense wouldn't take any more damage than a heavy armor soak tank. There are even other ways to survive, because magic. Historical blue magics have included plenty of defensive and restorative techniques, as well as offensive techniques.

6. And this is imho, Blue Mage just doesn't meet the qualifications of being a tanking job. It's more valuable as a DPS (or in this case, a melee caster DPS). DRK imo is just as bad as a tank, and imo it should have been a dps, but they had no other original ideas for a new kind of tank for HW, so they figured: "Hey! Lets make this old dps job into a tank! What could possibly go wrong? Ha Ha!"

6. Pure opinion.

6. Also YOUR pure opinion dude.

Well, no. I've backed mine up with historical data and an understanding that there are people who would play a mage tank specifically because it is not a heavy armor physical job (see previous pages in this thread).

We done here? Good. /blist GG

Not in the slightest, but good job /blisting me; maybe now I'll get to argue with someone rational instead.

[Tint]

the main problem i see with a caster tank is the enmity grabbing. we are used to tanks who pull enmity and aoe enmity with instant skills. and instant skills are better than casts for this anyway. soo... Unmend? Abyssal Drain? also there are many many aoe's wich are specifically targetet on the tank, makes it hard for a caster-tank when he constantly has to dodge.

i really don't see how BLU will be any different from PLD or DRK gameplay wise. if you go through with the pure caster tank he will be struggling compared to the physical tanks. and we already have two hybrid tanks with physical attacks and some magic...

[Rongway]

There are so many "I don't see how it can work because of spells" posts. They are unfounded. There are instant spells. Lots of them. Regen, Aspected Benefic, Flash, Unmend, Unleash, Scathe.


As for "how would a caster tank be any different from PLD or DRK", most of the changes are flavor. Some people just don't want to be running around in heavy armor and carrying a big sword. Some people want magic to be their primary weapon. The gameplay doesn't have to be completely different, but the job aesthetics and personality do.

[Tanathya]

Love it when people pull whatever they want from the series history when FFXIV is known for twisting it however they see fit. Just a reminder, tanking as such has never been a thing, except for maybe warriors and knights/paladins, the former with Provoke, the latter with Cover.

[MicahZerrshia]

What if they....wait for it...wait fooor it....

make it all 3

WHAT?

HOW COULD THEY?

OMG THATS INSANITY!

YOU ARE A FOOL!

I know I know but hear me out.

Blue is a magic specialist that pulls abilities for creatures in the world around them and we have creatures that could in their own way be considered one of the 3 archetypes we have. So blue could have 3 "stances" depending on what abilities they draw from. So we could have a blue tank, healer or dps by simply changing out the spell set. It would be kindda funky with stats but our stats are so simplistic anyway that its an easy go around. Use int for instance, improves dps in dps stance, healing could scale off it instead of mind in heal stance and could boost hp and def like vit in tank stance. secondary stats are basically all stacked the same for the most part. So single gear sets for blue all work. Or they could replace primary stats with a unique one and give it its own gear.

It would satisfy all types of players and it would allow for people to heal or dps or tank as needed. These stances could also be locked in instances so no one trolls or abuses the system.

They could also do the same for dancer if you really want to go there. dnc in xi could switch between the 3 roles for the most part.

[Ariel_Valmont]

I’d play a BLU tank, sounds refreshing, let me hold enmity with spells!