4.25 and beyond

[Mavrias]

We were kept occupied with alts, but only because we had to if we wanted more than one class, so here we get more done with less time. That's the theme overall - more done with less time. Is that a weakness? I'm not so sure.

I definitely feel its a weakness if all that extra time isn't filled with something. Plus, with the way this game is designed, making an alt is actively a chore if you want to make one. You have to slog through at least a hundred hours of frankly very bland story each and every time. Or, pay $60 to cut that down to maybe like 10 hours. That's really... not good design. Especially when technically we pay more for the ability to make alts.

[ShanXiv]

How difficult would it be for them, to add events like besieged, hamlet, assault, and campaigns? I'm assuming that would be too much Tanaka for Yoshi P to digest huh?

Kinda thinking about going back to FFXI for a while myself. I do end up wishing for more of the variety we had with XI in XIV these days. The treadmill is sooo played out today.

The next expansion will definitely decide this game's fate, and I fear they won't change much up at all.

ya....Tanaka is one of the best game director in Japan, Secret of Mana is my favorite ARPG,

Yoshi-P, well, I don't know, I don't play the new Dragon Quest games,
maybe he's good for the shareholders...
I think SE & most JP companies, are more focus on the mobile games now, easy & fast money

[ShanXiv]

All people say though is the game is boring and/or stale. No one even suggests ways to make it less boring and/or stale.

Trust me, they did, at the very beginning(2013-2014), those experienced players had foreseen the future of this game.
but many of them have been banned from the forum.

and I think, a good director/game designer ,should not always ask people how to create a game, how to do this, how to do that,
he should know more than we know.
Steve never asked people how to make an iphone, ipad & mac,
Now SE is more like the Tim's Apple company

[Vexander]

The most important thing for a MMO, is the party contents, the "I play this with someone" contents, the community,

Grind isn't an issue, because you can play different content with your friends. because in an old school MMO, the game let the PLAYERS CREATE the content.

Now the tomes grind in XIV is really an issue, because 99% of the time, you are doing it alone or doing it with strangers, there's no sense of community. a pure grind

XIV focused too much on the solo/random party contents, like a Single Player game.
Even the best Single Player game, won't last more than few months
If people like soloing 99% of the time, like some very easy & fast stuff, why they don't play some single player or mobile game? I don't understand

You know this is an excellent point to be honest. Perhaps SE should invest more time into FC content. Tie gear acquisition into it and it could work wonders.

[Usho]

Lets be honest about the game currently.... we grind out tomestones or weekly raid drops for ilv which doesn't even really matter.

This is what I've been talking about on this forum for a while now but of course the White Knights like their stale pretzels apparently. Honestly, the only thing keeping me subbed atm is my house (which I know I will lose if I take a extended break). I'm selling crafted items and doing what I can in game to earn a lot of gil so in the event that I do lose my house, if housing becomes available for me in the future I'll have the funds to get a new house. Til then, I intend to stay subbed so I can keep my house and because I'd miss chatting with some of my favorite people on Novice Network.

Ninja Edit: I don't have high hopes for Eureka either. I feel it will end up like Diadem. I "hope" it will work out but I won't hold my breath.

[Marcellus_Cassius]

The MMOs of today aren't designed for MMO players. The genre has been bleeding what made it special to many over the years as one studio after another chases after the wealth WoW generated, albeit some new features have been good. This game is essentially a single player game with online play, and most people can't tell the difference because they didn't play MMOs back in the day. Best bet going forward is to find an indie developer trying new things.

[Vhailor]

you are in no way required to like ff14 or think it is a great game i don't wanna seem like i am saying you have to.

what i am saying is FF14 isn't trying to be the game you want, and its succeeding very very very well despite not being what you want, it won't change any time soon and anything they add that sounds like something you would like would be butchered to cater to the casual full time life player who can't play well or often ruining it for you.

I think this highlights well a key point that most people don't seem to understand: I don't accept this current state of the game, will be vocal about wanting it to change, and do not want to yet resign myself to the idea that SE's flagship MMO (in the past FFXI, currently FFXIV) will be an ongoing pile of mediocrity. I think a lot of people fall into this group. We're not going to simply lie down and 'accept' SE's current vision for FFXIV. It's changed once before, and it can change again.

The whole argument about butchering content for 'casual' players is also nonsense. There are two distinct groups of people you referred to: those who don't play well, and those who can't play often. For the former, most of the FFXI content I listed - Assault, Nyzul Isle, Abyssea, Campaigns, maybe Besieged - none of that content was remotely as difficult as The Royal Menagerie. Battle content that feels different to what came before it, that offers a different experience, does not intrinsically require increased difficulty. It simply requires SE to be creative, something which they appear to be utterly incapable of these days. And for the people who cannot play often, the pace of content development in the game is already well beyond their playtime. So why does it all need to be focused on them, or even mostly? I got slammed with work a month ago, as an example; I was playing from my laptop maybe 30 minutes a night to unwind before the grind continued. I picked up Triple Triad. TT alone could have occupied me for a few months at a low play rate, and that's not even considering Crafting, Gathering, Gold Saucer mini-games, casual Tomestone farming, Vistas, Housing, and, oh yes, the entire main storyline. Where, exactly, does a problem arise if SE creates content that actually has some variety to it?

This argument about "oh but the casual players" needs to be killed off, buried in a shallow grave, and the earth around it salted. It is complete and utter nonsense, and effectively amounts to a giant excuse of SE's inability to design creative, fun, fresh-feeling content. I consider myself a casual player. I don't raid, I don't bother with the insane grinds, I don't level every job, I don't play 10 hours a day. And it really bothers me when 'casual' content is equated with 'shit' content.

[Ayer2015]

The MMOs of today aren't designed for MMO players. The genre has been bleeding what made it special to many over the years as one studio after another chases after the wealth WoW generated, albeit some new features have been good. This game is essentially a single player game with online play, and most people can't tell the difference because they didn't play MMOs back in the day. Best bet going forward is to find an indie developer trying new things.

All the indie titles look like shit and/or will likely not produce what they market in terms of systems. for me at least... this is my last MMO.

[Arcari]

At least SE hasn't tried to sell us lootboxes yet!

But on a serious note, I'd like to echo many of the sentiments in this discussion. I have been an active player since the beta; my sub hasn't dropped once. As much as I want to continue to support this game, even I have to admit just how stale it's become. I'm truly hoping Eureka will be able to give me even the slightest reason to stick around. Otherwise, I'll be making someone happy with a Shirogane Plot 38...

[Marcellus_Cassius]

Battle content that feels different to what came before it, that offers a different experience, does not intrinsically require increased difficulty.

I can't disagree with that Ayer2015. Also I think Vhailor brings up a good point.