The general player base needs to improve

[Gallus]

It’s baseless when you make them about someone whom you don’t even know. Or have never interacted with.

You almost make it sound like this is strange in a forum?

Anyway, we could go on and on about this. We clearly have different views about this community. I think it's doing fine, and I think it's healthier than ever (couldn't say the same thing in HW).
From what I gather, some of you think a lot of people are spoiled, lazy and that SE should somehow obligate them to perform better. I don't see this problem. All I'm seeing are people that play at different levels because they feel different about this game or dedicate more time to it, etc.

Feel free to vote kick anyone in a dungeon who isn't doing the rotation you feel they should be doing, go ahead, you could be kicking someone who either just made it to 70, isn't very familiar with their aoe rotation, recently came back or simply wants to put into practice their single target rotation because they are still not 100% familiar with it. I'm certainly proud of have never done so and I will continue doing the same thing.

[HyoMinPark]

Feel free to vote kick anyone who isn't doing the rotation you feel they should be doing, go ahead, you could be kicking someone who either just made it to 70, isn't very familiar with their aoe rotation or simply wants to put into practice their single target rotation because they are still practicing it. I'm certainly proud of have never done so and I will continue doing the same thing.

Well, most DPS jobs’ AOEs are learned at level 30~40 by the absolute latest (barring a few exceptions), some much earlier than that (BRD learns Quick Nock at level 18). If a DPS has had a skill for 30~40+ levels, and still cannot use them at level 70 in current endgame dungeons...then I don’t even know what to tell them. When you explicitly ask for their AOEs in chat multiple times, and they refuse to cooperate, well...sorry, I don’t have much sympathy for them.

As for practicing a single-target rotation, do it on the bosses. Not on the pack of 5+ mobs that are taking forever and a day to die. Or, better yet, practice on a striking dummy first, until it’s border muscle-memory, and then take it into duties, and practice on bosses, or on packs that are 3 mobs are less (because AOE is a gain at 3+ mobs)

You almost make it sound like this is strange in a forum?

What’s so strange about asking you to just be respectful toward someone unless they give you a good reason not to be? Has Kaiva given you a reason to respond as you have been responding in this thread; an actual good reason other than they said something you disagree with? If not, then you’re being needlessly rude.

[KaivaC]

Feel free to vote kick anyone in a dungeon who isn't doing the rotation you feel they should be doing, go ahead, you could be kicking someone who either just made it to 70, isn't very familiar with their aoe rotation or simply wants to put into practice their single target rotation because they are still practicing it. I'm certainly proud of have never done so and I will continue doing the same thing.

Lazy...sometimes, yes. Other times, they may flat out not know what they're doing wrong. The only times I've really ever personally initiated a vote kick was from a legitimate AFK person in a dungeon. My time limit is usually 5 minutes. I'll ask for AOE if I'm tanking and making a wall-to-wall pull because one can only rotate CDs for so long. If someone wants to practice single target rotation in an AOE scenario, while I won't really call them out on that, there are other places for it unless its a boss. Dummies for example. All the starting areas for the first three city-states have them. SE has already done enough in giving players the tools to play at a good level - it's up to players now to utilize what's available in their skill set, if they so please. This goes especially for those players wanting to jump into content at lvl 70 outside of the MSQ dungeons.

If they so choose, that is.

[Gallus]

Lazy...sometimes, yes. Other times, they may flat out not know what they're doing wrong. The only times I've really ever personally initiated a vote kick was from a legitimate AFK person in a dungeon. My time limit is usually 5 minutes. I'll ask for AOE if I'm tanking and making a wall-to-wall pull because one can only rotate CDs for so long. If someone wants to practice single target rotation in an AOE scenario, while I won't really call them out on that, there are other places for it unless its a boss. Dummies for example. All the starting areas for the first three city-states have them. SE has already done enough in giving players the tools to play at a good level - it's up to players now to utilize what's available in their skill set, if they so please. This goes especially for those players wanting to jump into content at lvl 70 outside of the MSQ dungeons.

If they so choose, that is.

Completely agree with that. Practicing their single target rotations on a dungeon when they should be playing for the team and AOE the group of mobs sounds selfish and isn't the perfect scenario... but nothing's perfect, ever, honestly. Going as far as to start a vote kick against these players? I say no to that. The only players I've kicked were people that were verbally harassing me or my group or were afk for a reasonable amount of time with no explanation given.

[KaivaC]

Completely agree with that. Practicing their single target rotations on a dungeon when they should be playing for the team and AOE the group of mobs sounds selfish and isn't the perfect scenario... but nothing's perfect, ever, honestly. Going as far as to start a vote kick against these players? I say no to that. The only players I've kicked were people that were verbally harassing me or my group or were afk for a reasonable amount of time with no explanation given.

Honestly, it depends. It's one of those case-by-case basis. I won't initiate a vote kick myself over stuff like that. But if somebody else initiates the vote kick, if they've been doing things that make the dungeon run unnecessarily more difficult that I've personally noticed, I'll hit yes. If I haven't noticed it, I don't buy into it. I was encouraged back when I was trying to get my mentor status to kick a player who joined my party - I'll note it was explicitly me asking for a carry on Thordan Ex in the PF in order to obtain my mentor status (this was the only fight I hadn't actually learned). This was many months ago. I guess one of the players had a terribly bad experience with a DPS and they wanted me to kick them because they thought that the DPS was trolling in their last party.

I ignored that, because I don't react to things I don't personally see.

And lo and behold, we got the clear after several wipes, because turns out, that DPS was the one that taught me how to complete that fight. I done went on a completely different subject here...fact is, I don't see everything as cut-and-paste black-and-white. I'd prefer to help other players - if they ignore me, fine, I'll just deal with it. I picked up mentor status to help, though.

...and I totally lost track of why I was originally responding in the first place.

That's new... -_-

[Gallus]

...and I totally lost track of why I was originally responding in the first place.

That's new... -_-

From what I gather, you seem to think there's a problem with the average level of this community. I'm not seeing it.

[KaivaC]

From what I gather, you seem to think there's a problem with the average level of this community. I'm not seeing it.

Pretty sure I'm close to my posting limit, so I'll leave this here until my limit resets. While you may not see a problem, a lot of us do. Take a look through this thread and you'll see players, vets and sprouts, who have basically said that, yes, we might just have a problem. A week's worth of Rabanastre runs shouldn't produce as many wipes on Mateus and Hashmal as it does. I'll give a pass on the Crystal Tower because, well, for one, it's not exactly obvious how to find it, and two, players coming into the SB expansion likely skipped a lot of the optional content in ARR to get here. That's why I said what I said. That's why I'm defending this position, and that's why I engage in conversation about ideas and suggestions.

[Tridus]

Feel free to vote kick anyone in a dungeon who isn't doing the rotation you feel they should be doing, go ahead, you could be kicking someone who either just made it to 70, isn't very familiar with their aoe rotation, recently came back or simply wants to put into practice their single target rotation because they are still not 100% familiar with it. I'm certainly proud of have never done so and I will continue doing the same thing.

If someone isn't doing an AoE rotation, that sounds like a great time to offer some advice. Because if they are new or returning, they might not know how to do it.

Which kinda brings us back around to "offering unsolicited advice is rude/toxic" that's also been said in this thread. When someone is doing something obviously wrong, the two most likely explanations for why are that they don't know any better or that they don't care. One of those has a chance of being corrected with some polite advice, which, if accepted, will help that player in everything they do going forward. That sounds like a thing we should be encouraging people attempt first, before resorting to the kick button, right?

Yet, so many people trying to offer advice get slammed by the community for it.

[Gallus]

If someone isn't doing an AoE rotation, that sounds like a great time to offer some advice. Because if they are new or returning, they might not know how to do it.

Which kinda brings us back around to "offering unsolicited advice is rude/toxic" that's also been said in this thread. When someone is doing something obviously wrong, the two most likely explanations for why are that they don't know any better or that they don't care. One of those has a chance of being corrected with some polite advice, which, if accepted, will help that player in everything they do going forward. That sounds like a thing we should be encouraging people attempt first, before resorting to the kick button, right?

Yet, so many people trying to offer advice get slammed by the community for it.

And if they don't know any better, you think they'll magically learn to AOE when you tell them how to in the same dungeon you are playing with them? I'll answer for you, they won't. And then my guess is that we'll go to the "I assume they are refusing to learn/they don't care" bit and proceed to kick them thinking you are being politically correct here.

[Tridus]

And if they don't know any better, you think they'll magically learn to AOE when you tell them how to in the same dungeon you are playing with them?

Some of them will, yes. Considering even basic AoE would be a big upgrade and that can be as simple as "use Scatter instead of Jolt", it's something that can be explained in chat.

I'll answer for you, they won't.

And exactly what is that based on, except your resounding negativity about every player who isn't you?

And then my guess is that we'll go to the "I assume they are refusing to learn/they don't care" bit and proceed to kick them thinking you are being politically correct here.

Another negative assumption. Are you here to actually discuss anything, or just to attack everyone that isn't telling you what you want to hear?