The general player base needs to improve

[VanilleFang]

I don't understand the argument that "Shinryu NM was harder than everything before so [random excuse]". People use it as a justification for numerous wipes or bad performance. If this was the case than how did people like myself, who had never done Extremes or Savages before Shinryu, clear him with no issue? Most of the mechanics he has are either a repeat of an old mechanic, or straightfoward. The only mechanic I ever had issue with was (and still is) Earth Breath, and only because I forget how large the cone AoE is.

Shinryu is an easy fight. All you have to do is play with some competence.

[Stanelis]

A lot of people that said it was bad largely never even tried it, rather they just accepted word of mouth about it.

It's also popular thought that the game engine/gameplay isn't suited for it, and that's just not true. It could be better, yes. Hell, it WAS better before Stormblood, but if it wasn't suited for it, they wouldn't have added it.

1) most people have tried FFXIV PVP, see that it is awfully bad and never put a foot in such activities again.
2) The game engine and gameplay isn't suited for it (the holy trinity doesn't work in PVP and FFXIV is all about it, and the frequency at witch the server tally the player's movement isn't high enough to provide for smooth gameplay).
3) They added PVP because the most popular games currently are all PVP games that have pro leagues (just take a look at twitch and the most popular games), not because the gameplay is suited for it. It is a (poor) marketing choice (somebody at SE seemingly didn't get the memo that if you're going to have pvp in your game you also need to have a relevant gameplay tied to it).

I mean, FFXIV have some strong selling points (mostly that it is very pretty, the CS are decent and the immersion in the areas is quite good), but PVP isn't one of those.

[Minako_Nightsong]

Where do you draw the line on improving, though? The definition of 'bad' is extremely subjective. I know I struggle hard with Rabanastre, but that's because it has some of the absolute worst, most deceiving visual queues in the game on top of stupid amounts of massive AoE spam leaving no room for mistakes. It's one of the few examples that I can think of where FFXIV tries way too hard to be difficult, missing the mark on a fair challenge completely. The player can't be blamed for that.
.

I still die on Hashbrowns sometimes when the earthquake patches start piling up, usually right as he does his flaming hand thing! I also seem to die to sudden aoe ground effects if I am in the middle of them such as Susano circles or very wide cone effects. I start to run as soon as I see them but, bam....dead.

I only had ARR and played for about a month before Stormblood so I spent the first week of access playing Red Mage through Heavensward. My second week was in Stormblood so I reached Shinyru when it was still very new. It took a play session to finally pass him to continue the story. All of his recycled mechanics were new to most of us and we were also in our spiffy 290 class gear. He was a leap in difficulty from what we had experienced up till then. I had a lot of fun learning and beating him.

The most fun I had in a long time was a few weeks ago when 4.2 dropped. I decided to go in totally blind and as a tank (I don't tank much) to Hell's Lid and Continuum. My parties did well and it was a blast having to reason the best approach to each mechanic on the fly. I also played the Sigmascape and Byakko as dps the same way with the same results.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

1) most people have tried FFXIV PVP, see that it is awfully bad and never put a foot in such activities again.
2) The game engine and gameplay isn't suited for it (the holy trinity doesn't work in PVP and FFXIV is all about it, and the frequency at witch the server tally the player's movement isn't high enough to provide for smooth gameplay).
3) They added PVP because the most popular games currently are all PVP games that have pro leagues (just take a look at twitch and the most popular games), not because the gameplay is suited for it. It is a (poor) marketing choice (somebody at SE seemingly didn't get the memo that if you're going to have pvp in your game you also need to have a relevant gameplay tied to it).

1. Most people really have no idea what they're doing in there, and that's even after the 4.0 overhaul.
2. Why then was there a dedicated community formed around it for 4 years until now? I mean if it were so ill suited, SE must be some kind of idiot savant for pulling it off in a workable fashion before.
3. They added it because fans wanted it bad enough. . . You know, like housing, glamours, Eternal Bond, trading primal tokens for mounts (THAT idea was even born on the forums), and many other features the game didn't start with.

In the interest of time and not inciting anyone by daring to talk about XIV's red-headed stepchild, please go read the PvP forums. Our exchange just now, and wherever it might go from there has been discussed plenty of times. Let's not upset anyone here in General Discussion.

[Sesera]

snip

Everything is easy and you can afk whenever you want and still succeed but only if the rest of the party know what to do and perform well.
Unless all your party was perfoming bad/average (eating mechanics...)and still win you can't say its easy just because you didn't have trouble.
A lot of people seem to forget something about mmo, you can play like a god and fail because the rest of the team is bad and play horrible and still win because the rest know what to do.
Shinryu with a bunch of first timer might be a bit troublesome.

[Dualgunner]

From guildhests to Savage content, I strive to not just be capable of doing it, but doing it well. If something needs to be learned or be mindful of, I take the steps to know it. I PRACTICE: If I'm good at it, then I want to stay sharp. If I'm not, I want to get better.

This. This times a hundred. Thousand. Million. Infinity. This is the only thing I really ask of my static, and the only thing I ask of myself. The drive to improve, whether or not one can already be considered "good" is IMO better than any dps a person currently has.

[DracotheDragon]

snip

the main reason as to why PVP and PVE would be different is due to the lack of feedback you get the numbers in that have a different style to them to show what you have done, while in normal PVE the feedback you get is the exp the items etc, not only this, but theres no gate with DPS in PvP so showing a numbers tends to be ineffectual since you could have someone guarding say the generator in Rival wings and may not attack anyone, to someone dealing a lot of damage to a tower outside of a mech meaning the numbers you tend to get are worthless while in pve if you went to do a dungeon you could see someone didn't know how to play there job complain and then reports could get thrown and it becomes a mess.

also SSS is not a very good tool to measure DPS, i have wanted a parcer in the game so i can improve on my ps4 but i have seen and been in parties where i got hounded for any logs regardless to the fact i cleared the content multiple times putting it in the game could make it the norm. it won't make it allowed it would just make it easier for people to do so.

[Sekkei]

I've been half joking since Rabanastre's release that the raid is stuck in an eternal "week one". Almost every run sees a wipe on Mateus and/or Hashmal multiple times with an occasional Rofocale wipe due to several people standing on a circle and not clicking it. I'm honestly dreading the second installment in the raid series if it's still this bad. Also I don't know how it could get worse, but ever since the weekly gear lockout was lifted, the wipes, trolls, vote abandons, and verbal onslaught in chat has quadrupled. :\

[RiyahArp]

Sigh.

Maybe if the story prepared for the sudden spike—.

They could have done that in Sigma Normal rather than story mode. It makes no sense Shin is harder than Kefka and a longer fight to boot. It makes no sense that the third boss of the new sigmascape is harder than Kefka ffs. It's obvious they design fights based on what they think is cool, and then when they are all done, half-ass balancing. Like the poster said about Rab being in day one, its only because hashmal and to a lesser extend mateus are much tougher than ardath and rofocale, yet both are the first two fights instead of the last one.

I think the last time I ever touched Shinryu normal, a friend asked me to help an FC mate get a clear. . .

I am, at this point, half-awake and thinking "eh, how does that fight even go again?" but I agreed to help.

Cleared, no wipes, I died once due to nearly dozing off again at the part the floor ices over. . . That fight was not hard if it can essentially be done blind and half-awake.

grats, you did it with a plus 50 or more ilvl difference than when it released, along with players (especially healers) who do know every single mechanic. If you used MCH, you also did it with one of the least penalized jobs in term of adapting to movement mechanics in this game. Only thing easier is tanking it.

[MoroMurasaki]

grats, you did it with a plus 50 or more ilvl difference than when it released, along with players (especially healers) who do know every single mechanic. If you used MCH, you also did it with one of the least penalized jobs in term of adapting to movement mechanics in this game. Only thing easier is tanking it.

For someone who spends so much time and energy disparaging raiders for their toxicity you sure are disgustingly rude and toxic yourself.