The general player base needs to improve

[KaivaC]

snip

Ok...?

I actually like your reply...that is siggy material. But this doesn't apply to me. I don't even know where to begin to respond to this. I never said I was unhappy with anything. I don't 'use' the playerbase for anything, I help other players that I'm grouped with if they need/want the help. To be fair, let's clear the air right now - I don't 'need' the playerbase to get better just so I can clear. I am more than capable of getting the clears through a party finder should I choose to do it. I don't need to be carried through anything. I don't want to be carried through anything. Much like many of us who do participate in endgame content, I will spend the time to learn a fight and then I will clear it.

I want the playerbase in general to get better, not for my sake, but because I feel that it can and should get better when it counts.

I want an open discussion on this, which spawned this discussion thread. Mayhap before you make a reply like that, you actually read many of the replies I have made recently. It's not hard to click on my profile link and look at just my responses.

There are two students, student 1 and student 2.
Student 1 and 2 are both passing their lectures. However, student 1 is passing with high grades. While student 2 is passing with lower grades. Student 2 is happy by just passing and don't care about getting better grades.

It is exactly the same situation in-game. Some players are happy with just clearing content, while others want to clear content with high performance and try to do better every time.

The only difference, your performance in-game will affect the entire team.

You cannot force people to play on the same level as you, and you cannot make them better players by giving them harder content. They might just quit or wait until they overgear content to clear it. They might as well ask for content to be nerfed.

The difference between a good player and a bad player is the time they spent learning.
If the player has no motivation to search/watch/read guides and learn from them, they won't get better.

To those who say that the player base is not bad. The dev team themselves have acknowledged that the player base is, in fact, performing below their standards. Which explains why they are trying to make content easier, and even trying to simplify rotations.
So just because you had an expert with no deaths/mistakes, it doesn't mean that every player in that party was good (I don't want to go into deep details about this).

In the end, everyone is playing to have fun. But don't put yourself in situations you are not suited for. By doing so, you're ruining other players fun.

Sorry, I am just now getting around to this, but I love this comment. +1

[Dualgunner]

And yet it's okay to have expectations of your team to carry you through content?

[Stanelis]

And yet it's okay to have expectations of your team to carry you through content?

Matched parties through duty finder aren't "your team", they are 4, 8 or 24 players picked randomly and put together in a group. You can't have expectations related to their skill level. If you have expectations related to the skkill level of players you play with, by all mean, use other ways to build you group (just like how people have been faring since everquest).

[Sesera]

Matched parties through duty finder aren't "your team", they are 4, 8 or 24 players picked randomly and put together in a group. You can't have expectations related to their skill level. If you have expectations related to the skkill level of players you play with, by all mean, use other ways to build you group (just like how people have been faring since everquest).

And we aren't their team either. We are all fine with less skilled players but we aren't with the "I don't want to put effort to improve or to help the party" type of players.
And at a certain level I sure have some expectation regarding basic stuff that should be mastered (like dodging aoe, don't heal with medica for single target...)

[Dualgunner]

Matched parties in duty finder are "my team". We're grouped up with the same endgoal with the same enemies.
You haven't answered the question either: if I'm not allowed to have expectations of their skill, why should they expect me to carry them?

[Stanelis]

Matched parties in duty finder are "my team". We're grouped up with the same endgoal with the same enemies.
You haven't answered the question either: if I'm not allowed to have expectations of their skill, why should they expect me to carry them?

But what is telling you they expect you to carry them in the first place ? If you don't like the group you're matched with, the door is open.

[Dualgunner]

But what is telling you they expect you to carry them in the first place ? If you don't like the group you're matched with, the door is open.

Their poor performance is what tells me that.

[Dzian]

These things are hard to get right, because having the playerbase improve means slowly cranking up the difficulty such that people will adjust and learn without hitting a wall of frustration and quitting in response. If wipes and failure are more frequent, is that a thing we want? Look at how often Rabanastre comes up as a problem, when the "problem" is that failure actually happens there? Do we want EVERYTHING to look like that, with the risk that the bottom 20% might quit the game entirely as a result (and the revenue implications that brings)?

The thing is. If they did increase the difficulty a bit and doing that did cause the bottom 20% of players to quit rather than rise to the challenge would that really be a bad thing?

On it's own perhaps. But at the other end how many players have quit playing the game because it's to easy and thus not rewarding or satisfying to play? There is no satisfaction beating something you can't possibly lose. And if games aren't satisfying or rewarding people don't play them.

One of the games biggest problems is player retention and that comes largely down to the lack of difficulty or sense of satisfaction from playing it.

The games had over 10 million players but something like 500k are active if the limestone sweeps are even remotely accurate. But even of we double it and say there's a million active players. If a difficulty increase caused the bottom 20% to quit would that be so bad.

How many of the 9 million that already quit would still be playing if the game felt more satisfying and rewarding as a result of that difficulty curve?

You might find that where you lose the bottom 200k you gain 500k in the middle or at the top.

The lack of satisfaction and difficulty is a big reason so many people quit. Because like I said earlier. There is no accomplishment or satisfaction in clearing something you simply can not fail.

So while it may be true increasing difficulty might push players away.
It's also true it might help retain or bring back just as many or even more players

[Riardon]

I don't need to improve when I can faceroll keybaord and win everything in this game (excluding Extreme primals and Raiding).
The game is way too easy and people expecting to win everything win one or two clicks.
See what happened with the Steps of Faith. It was hard but not too hard. It needed coordination and good dps (nothing extreme but it needed some effort).
People immediately started crying that it is too hard. And that because they didn't learn to have patience and play well. They expected to clear it at first try and when they didn't they outraged.
So SE said "lol fine whatever as long as I have my subs here take a nerf".

[Sesera]

I don't need to improve when I can faceroll keybaord and win everything in this game (excluding Extreme primals and Raiding).
The game is way too easy and people expecting to win everything win one or two clicks.
See what happened with the Steps of Faith. It was hard but not too hard. It needed coordination and good dps (nothing extreme but it needed some effort).
People immediately started crying that it is too hard. And that because they didn't learn to have patience and play well. They expected to clear it at first try and when they didn't they outraged.
So SE said "lol fine whatever as long as I have my subs here take a nerf".

You can faceroll because the other players are putting some effort.
If all the party is doing the same you aren't going to pass the first pack of mobs.