The general player base needs to improve

[MoroMurasaki]

Add: It's not a player problem, it's a development problem.

How do you account for all the people who try hard even after clearing and gearing up through Savage? How about the people who haven't done Savage but still perform well in other content that they do complete?

Your theory is full of holes.

There is plenty to do as you begin to master a class. Today I wasn't sure what I felt like doing and joined a few learning parties for EX primals. Got people clears for Lakshmi, Shinryu and Byakko and got some more tokens in the process.

People can be driven by something other than a carrot on a stick.

[Bobs]

People can be driven by something other than a carrot on a stick.

Maybe you are right and the OPs argument is just incorrect. If it is how you say (most people try)

[MoroMurasaki]

Maybe you are right and the OPs argument is just incorrect. If it is how you say (most people try)

I was kind of waiting for an edit here (since this post ends with a parenthesis and not a period or a sentence at all really) but I never said most players try I said some do outside of your black and white boxes of 'Savage raider' and 'everyone else does nothing'.

I have hardly ever done any Savage (largely just O1S and O2S which is widely regarded as not real Savage) but I have orange parses in Rabanastre and I've outdpsed friends of mine who do raid.

If you see gearing up in Savage as the final goalpost in this game I feel bad for you. There's a ton of stuff to do especially as a casual player. Arguing people aren't motivated enough by the lack of rewards is kind of asinine to me - they aren't motivated because they don't need to be since they can clear all the content in the game while playing fairly poorly especially if they find themselves in the right group.

Ahem...
Ax gon' give it to ya! http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4524093

Now for my actual post...

The instances to "git gud" are already in place. The logical progression at level 70 should be Expert Roulettes > 24 Man raids > 8 man raids > EX primals >*Savage > Ultimate. It's just not tight enough in it's difficulty to demand the player to step up all the way from the EX primals step. 3 out of the 4 EX primals we had this expansion are laughing stock. In no way do they prepare you for whatever Savage will bring you.

I laughed pretty hard at the start of that but you've also outlined a feeling that I've had for quite a while now absolutely perfectly.

I am on the EX primals step of this ladder and I feel like I'm stuck there because the leap to Savage is so intimidating. Logically I understand I could probably do it but I just feel like I'm going to be instantly overwhelmed and disappoint my group.

That is the biggest bridge that needs building in this game in my opinion.

[Bobs]

I was kind of waiting for an edit here (since this post ends with a parenthesis and not a period or a sentence at all really)

Casual content is by definition not particularly challenging. Which is the opposite of what the OP thinks the game needs. So really I'm agreeing with you in a way. OPs definition of FF14 is not your definition. To answer OPs "problem," it's the dev's job to provide that "carrot." What you are describing is just a bunch of smaller carrots (in my view).

Sorry for my poor punctuation and sentence structure. My Duty Finder poped.

[MoroMurasaki]

Casual content is by definition not particularly challenging. Which is the opposite of what the OP thinks the game needs. So really I'm agreeing with you in a way. OPs definition of FF14 is not your definition. To answer OPs "problem," it's the dev's job to provide that "carrot." What you are describing is just a bunch of smaller carrots (in my view).

Sorry for my poor punctuation and sentence structure. My Duty Finder poped.

It happens. I was just legitimately unsure if I was missing an edit.

The thing is I don't think players need a measurable reward in order to want to improve assuming the requisite improvment isn't a huge stretch.

Let's use me as an example. In my previous post I talked about my fear of Savage content, feeling unprepared for it. Realistically even though I'm as prepared as someone who hasn't done it could be I am still not going to perform well in that enviroment without a lot of effort on my part because it is more things happening faster and that hurt you more than what I am accuatomed to.

It requires things like better awareness and reflexes, prefarably stronger gear and a willingness to optimize more.

Now apply that to someone that completes Expert roulette daily and then hears about the easy 340 weapon from Rabanastre. There is nothing in Expert roulette that prepares a player for Hashmal, not even a little. Someone who has only regularly had to do content on par with Kugane Castle isn't ready for that many one-shot mechanics, required movement and incoming damage.

If the steps in this ladder were closer together perhaps people who completed Expert roulette wouldn't be so lost in a 24man, or people like me who can comfortably complete EX primals wouldn't be so lost in Savage.

I circle back to the same theory - people are bad because they can be. I have seen people in Byakko doing under 2k on MNK. I've had cohealers in Rabanastre that spend an equal amount of time on the floor as they do standing up. They still get their clears though, despite being in content they couldn't hope to keep up with.

A better (or at least existant) difficulty curve would be such a positive change for this game. Right now it's more like gambling than strategy for some of these people - it isn't about having the skill to complete the fight but rather just a matter of queueing for said fight until they get a group that can drag them through.

Sadly, even Savage hasn't been immune to "laughing stock" status lest we never forget the absolute joke that was Alte Roite.

Oh Alte Roite...

I remember clearing that fight and thinking "Oh, this is Savage? Okay, I can totally do this"...

... then I got to O3S.