Discussing your 'unpopular' opinions

[Bourne_Endeavor]

People are complaining not because it was legitimately better, but because of nostalgia goggles. Might as well complain about how not needing to aply 2-3 Dots for every class was removed in HW, or how BLM is arguably worse since they aren't on 3.0's original strict enochian timer.

We have been over this ad nauseam. You needs stop speaking in absolutes. It does nothing for your arguments except make them appear narrow-minded.

I am someone who actually agreed with the initial PvP overhaul when I assumed it was intended more to consolidated unnecessary abilities and split them all away from PvE for easier balance purposes. What they actually did was, indeed, a gut job. Gone are virtually all crowd control abilities, which was among my favorite activities on healers. I much preferred not contributing any DPS and stun and cast locking people as it added a strategic element unique to PvP. Now I have no AoE heals, no CC and am hilariously overpowered because healing was "too hard" in 3.0. Their excuse? "No one would play healers!" Yeah, now everyone plays them. It's beyond absurd I can heal through four melee trying to grind me into dust. And it's equally depressing when they give up knowing I'll never die unless I mess up.

All they needed to do was trim some fat, not reduce our abilities to what, nine? Hell, add just a couple of CCs back and I could grow to like this current system. But no, it's not nostalgia that makes it less engaging. I wasn't a huge PvPer to begin with. I simply preferred what we had before.

[DreadRabbit]

She does not mean PvP rewards, as in the stuff you get for the tokens. She means ranking rewards gotten at the end of Feast for those that have the most points. Those are exclusive.

OH! Okay then, thank you very much for clarifying that for me. Deeply appreciate that. And I apologize to Itswhateverthough for that misunderstanding.

That being said I guess I'll just have to agree to disagree with you both. Exclusives help incentivize people to try new things. Do I want the tank mounts? Sure. Will I tank for them? ...Mm, probably not. I don't mind the idea of giving tanking a shot, but I also know me as a general game player. Tanking doesn't sound fun to me. I'm not going to sit and demand SE make those mounts available to me just because I'd like to collect the mounts. It's a thank you to tanks. I really don't see the PvP thing as any different.

[Dualgunner]

Anyways, your post is bait because it only serves to belittle the opinion of the other poster. The fact that you even said it was unhealthy is largely hyperbole, it's just an opinion, it's not a venereal disease.

What if it's her unpopular opinion that the opinion of the poster she's referring to is an unhealthy thought process to have regarding content creation? She carried the logic of that opinion on, as this game is a themepark, every piece of content it has caters to a different minority.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Oh, backseat moderating. Cool, we're doing that this year?

Anyways, your post is bait because it only serves to belittle the opinion of the other poster. The fact that you even said it was unhealthy is largely hyperbole, it's just an opinion, it's not a venereal disease.

Frankly, his opinion is valid and bears truth to it, there's a small fraction of players actually killing Ultimate, compared to Savage, casual content like dungeons and even PvP. You were just using hyperbole to make a point, which is fair game but at the same time, it's dramatics.

Backseat moderating? Nah, I just offered more than an attempt at humor through pointing things out and erroneously calling it bait.

I never said he wasn't entitled to his opinion. But fact is, that line of thinking IS unhealthy for a product meant to have such a broad appeal. Not unlike when people say "This isn't a PvP game". Yeah? Well it wasn't a housing, glamours, or Eternal Bond game before either. Imagine for a moment if devs actually thought along the same lines as which he said before; we wouldn't have half the things we so enjoy and appreciate in this game. So yes, it IS unhealthy to think that way. The size of the playerbase actively enjoying a part of the game shouldn't be a subtracting factor, and what one person enjoys as an endgame activity of choice might not be so enjoyable to others. In Ultimate's case, the creeping ease of difficulty in the game (don't say you haven't noticed it) created both the player's need, and developer's challenge to create something truly difficult in this game that otherwise treats challenge like an allergy. The result isn't exclusive, nor has it taken away from anything else in this game. Seriously, SE isn't simply one small team of devs with a giant to-do list of features and additions to the game to work on.

She does not mean PvP rewards, as in the stuff you get for the tokens. She means ranking rewards gotten at the end of Feast for those that have the most points. Those are exclusive. You cannot get them once the season ends. And only X people can get them, depending on the reward. Very few X people. Look here.

The trophy is pretty obvious. I mean, you shouldn't get a trophy if you're not the best, right?! I personally have no issue with an exclusive TROPHY for being the best. Maybe some sort of medal as an accessory for those lower on the rankings and/or for meeting the specific rank (I mean gold, diamond and what not). But when rewards include MINIONS and MOUNTS, both of which are collectables in this game, and glamour, which is the most popular "end-game" stuff to do for many casual players, really, it stops being fine with me and apparently Itswhateverthough.

Let me address this one for a moment.

You said it yourself that you shouldn't get a trophy if you're not the best. Well, that minion was a "tropy" for 10 people that COMPETED for it. At least it was meant to be. No one ever said that guy couldn't get it. But he gave up before even trying (and let me state, for clarity's sake; he actually DID end up trying, but was ill prepared for said competition) and instead complained and SE rolled right over for him. Not just that, I mentioned before that turning it into an achievement award allowed people who didn't compete to just grind it out before the winners even got their prizes - SE having said winners would receive their rewards first. Beyond that, the "extra" prize offered paled in comparison. They got earrings. The top 10 players of that season got earrings. . . I got earrings just for reaching Silver rank and stopping in season 2. So do you see the issue there? Sure, I get he was a minion collector, fine. But he was not (initially) willing to compete for that minion, and due to complaints, he was given that "trophy" others were otherwise willing to compete for. Everybody gets one. . . that's just not how competition rewards work. And frankly, since then, I've personally hoped they never offer a mount or minion again. Apparently glamour rewards or anything that people don't care about or feel they HAVE to care about is okay for PvP rewards, but the moment it's something people might actually want - regardless of if they want to compete for it or not - THEN it's a problem? Are some players THAT entitled?

I mean, if that's how it works, if that's what we think is acceptable, then where's my Legacy mark? I've been playing since 2.0 launch. It's "not fair" that I couldn't play 1.0 to get it, but I've been here since day 1 of 2.0. So where's my mark? Or where's my special mark for having played since 2.0?

[Shurrikhan]

Oh, backseat moderating. Cool, we're doing that this year?

Anyways, your post is bait because it only serves to belittle the opinion of the other poster. The fact that you even said it was unhealthy is largely hyperbole, it's just an opinion, it's not a venereal disease.

Frankly, his opinion is valid and bears truth to it, there's a small fraction of players actually killing Ultimate, compared to Savage, casual content like dungeons and even PvP. You were just using hyperbole to make a point, which is fair game but at the same time, it's dramatics.

If it's not something one is willing to discuss, why post it in the first place? Are these opinions supposed to amount solely to arbitrary words for a signature wall? Is it just venting?

Poster #8 makes a claim and provides a warrant. Poster #10 notes that at a fundamental level the warrant applies equally to other claims that Poster #8 has not given, probing for a method of distinguishing or identifying #8's practical limit to the warrant.

I understand that the tone could be better, but does anything in that exchange stand contrary to the thread's stated purpose, to discuss one's unpopular opinions?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

That being said I guess I'll just have to agree to disagree with you both. Exclusives help incentivize people to try new things. Do I want the tank mounts? Sure. Will I tank for them? ...Mm, probably not. I don't mind the idea of giving tanking a shot, but I also know me as a general game player. Tanking doesn't sound fun to me. I'm not going to sit and demand SE make those mounts available to me just because I'd like to collect the mounts. It's a thank you to tanks. I really don't see the PvP thing as any different.

Tank mounts aren't exclusive though. If you randomly decide to tank one day, you can eventually get them. PvP exclusives are timed. Like I said earlier, if you didn't rank in the top 100 a few seasons ago, you can't ever get the Hell Hound mount.

[kikix12]

You said it yourself that you shouldn't get a trophy if you're not the best. Well, that minion was a "tropy" for 10 people that COMPETED for it.

Except it was not a trophy, it was a reward. Every trophy is a reward, but not every reward is a trophy. I literally meant a trophy, or a medal. Digital of course. Anything beyond that is beyond the scope of what I said.

At least it was meant to be. No one ever said that guy couldn't get it.

1) It shouldn't have been.
2) I never did actually write anything about that. I merely expressed my opinion of exclusive content in a game. And by exclusive, I mean limited in time, something that cannot be obtained past the point when it was offered first.

Everybody gets one. . . that's just not how competition rewards work.

Competition rewards are a trophy/medal to show to others proving that you really did win, and money. In this game it could have been gil (though pretty much worthless by now) or some amount of crysta (with how few people actually win, it wouldn't cost Square too much). Anything else should have never been considered a reward for a TIME LIMITED event.

Are some players THAT entitled?

You, like some person before you commenting about 'special snowflake' are doing something I really hate. Twisting the definition of a word to your argument, even if it is entirely incorrect.

And 'entitled' person thinks he, for whatever reason, 'deserves' something. An entitled child may think he deserves money from their parents, for example, simply for being there. That's not what I was talking about at all.

I never said to give these rewards to everyone that asks for them (and yes, THAT'S what 'entitled' would mean). I said that everyone should have some chance of obtaining them. I did not even say that it shouldn't be PvP or that it needs to be easy. I said that it simply should be there. For example, someone that did start playing this game last month never even had a chance of getting it. It is not a matter of them trying or not. They just wouldn't be able to due to when they begun playing this game. Period. And THAT'S the problem.

I mean, if that's how it works, if that's what we think is acceptable, then where's my Legacy mark? I've been playing since 2.0 launch. It's "not fair" that I couldn't play 1.0 to get it, but I've been here since day 1 of 2.0. So where's my mark? Or where's my special mark for having played since 2.0?

Yes, I actually dislike that as well. Final Fantasy XIV right now is a different game entirely. It's more like a sequel to 1.0. I don't think people should have gotten anything because they did play V1.0. Not unless others are given that same chance playing on a legacy server...and everyone knows full well that's not available, nor will it become available. IF Square wanted to somehow thank the players as an 'apology' for how the game turned out, they should just reimburse at least part of the costs, like one month of subscription. Ultimately, those that did play it, got to play it. That's what they bought it for, right?! And if they did not enjoy it at all, they shouldn't have played past 1 month anyway.

[VanilleFang]

Healers in pvp

Yeah I don't PvP much but when I do I go in as WHM and.. Seriously I was a bit confused. Why, as a healer, can I tank hits better than the tanks? Oh no you are going to attack me *Divine Benison*. Oh no DB wore off... *Protect*. Oh, 10s have passed and Protect is gone... *Safeguard*. Oh shit you almost killed me! *Benediction*. It's been 20s! *Divine Benison*

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Quote fests aside, let me be blunt in saying it:

If you want PvP rewards, you better learn to PvP. Hell, they made it "easier" now with this "foundation" of a new system in 4.0, so no excuses for not learning or not trying. Realistically, of course, you'd better be willing to fight harder, smarter, and better than the others that want it as well. That's competition.

Hell, that's life.

[kikix12]

Quote fests aside, let me be blunt in saying it:

If you want PvP rewards, you better learn to PvP. Hell, they made it "easier" now with this "foundation" of a new system in 4.0, so no excuses for not learning or not trying. Realistically, of course, you'd better be willing to fight harder, smarter, and better than the others that want it as well. That's competition.

Hell, that's life.

You're missing the point entirely. We're not talking about dropping those rewards into PvE...We're talking about giving people the chance at them regardless of when they decide to try at it, when they start playing the game etc.

Make the rewards for Feast some sort of tokens and let those tokens be exchanged for any reward ever offered in Feast. There, problem solved. They are no longer exclusive, but they still require the same amount (and type) of effort.

If you still cannot understand the difference, it means you do not want to.

In real life, if you miss a sale, you can always buy the item at full price. If you miss that special number-limited figurine going on sale, you can always look for someone that got it and try buying it off of him. There is nothing exclusive in life. Except game content...