The time has come to get rid of enrage timers

[RiyahArp]

Oh, and get this... I've fought everything in PVE content as far as post 4.0 with the notable exception of O4S. Which I have told you on multiple occasions..

I used you as a general point. People here are essentially saying "shut up until you've maxed current raid content in this game." There's really only ultimate after this, and according to Lucky Bancho's recent census barely 300 people in all of NA have cleared it. I think enrage in concept is something that you don't really need to make such a fine distinction, because it works the same way in ex/savage fights despite difficulty. The idea is the same; if you don't do enough long term dps the boss ends the fight after a certain phase, and its really only in ex and up content where you see it often enough where it makes a difference in failing fights.

I don't really like it if we're making raids all about two fights in the entire game now.

There's a difference though, he's claiming it's super easy but hasn't even beaten the fights yet? That's like if someone knew how to play Mary Had a Little Lamb on the piano, they look up a video of a more sophisticated and longer 5+ minute piece and say "wow that's easy, it's just hitting a bunch of keys in a certain order" and can't actually play it. Just makes them look silly and ignorant.

The argument has been made in general, though. I'm sort of replying to that. And people have a bad tendency to say everything is easy once they've beaten it period. I'm sort of commenting on how apparently only two fights in this game are "real" raids because of difficulty, while the rest is just baby's first raid or something apaprently.

[AxlStream]

The argument has been made in general, though. I'm sort of replying to that. And people have a bad tendency to say everything is easy once they've beaten it period. I'm sort of commenting on how apparently only two fights in this game are "real" raids because of difficulty, while the rest is just baby's first raid or something apaprently.

But... O1S and O2S litterally are "Baby's first raid"! The only other Savage fight that was close to them on difficulty out of the Savage content WHILE it was current, was A9S. Also A9S had 2 enrage timers!

[RiyahArp]

But... O1S and O2S litterally are "Baby's first raid"! The only other Savage fight that was close to them on difficulty out of the Savage content WHILE it was current, was A9S. Also A9S had 2 enrage timers!

Might as well call ex trials not raiding either, since overall they are simpler than 03s and 04s. Pretty soon we'll call all raids useless, the only real endgame is whether you can beat ultimate or not. But I mean even at a lowered difficulty, the design is still similar enough that you can understand enrage and talk about it, because it does effect players in the same way. You pug O1s in a learning party, people hit enrage for the same reasons in later fights. The bar is lower but works the same way, where none of the fights in exprt stuff even last long enough to do so.

[AxlStream]

Might as well call ex trials not raiding either, since overall they are simpler than 03s and 04s. Pretty soon we'll call all raids useless, the only real endgame is whether you can beat ultimate or not. But I mean even at a lowered difficulty, the design is still similar enough that you can understand enrage and talk about it, because it does effect players in the same way. You pug O1s in a learning party, people hit enrage for the same reasons in later fights. The bar is lower but works the same way, where none of the fights in exprt stuff even last long enough to do so.

We all know what enrage is. What we're saying is, people that can't deal with said enrage timers shouldn't talk about them. It's not the timer that's faulty, it's the players performances. Also I play Scholar but do you see me talking about them on the forums saying they need buffs? No. Because I don't master Scholar like I master the end game fights. Therefor I talk about end game fight mechanics and not Scholars.

[KaivaC]

I used you as a general point. People here are essentially saying "shut up until you've maxed current raid content in this game." There's really only ultimate after this, and according to Lucky Bancho's recent census barely 300 people in all of NA have cleared it. I think enrage in concept is something that you don't really need to make such a fine distinction, because it works the same way in ex/savage fights despite difficulty. The idea is the same; if you don't do enough long term dps the boss ends the fight after a certain phase, and its really only in ex and up content where you see it often enough where it makes a difference in failing fights.

I don't really like it if we're making raids all about two fights in the entire game now.

Except whatever point you thought you were making makes no sense in context because most of the things you were talking about had nothing to do with me.

I have no idea why you keep up bringing up lucky bancho. It only reports clears for people who get the mounts. Not everyone has the mount. And for whatever reason, you keep on mentioning the hardest fight in the game thus far. It's like you quote data you don't even understand

Dunno where you got the idea that people are making the game about raids. You've been the threads springing up about housing. What are you talking about

[RiyahArp]

Except whatever point you thought you were making makes no sense in context because most of the things you were talking about had nothing to do with me.

He's really the only data we have. And the numbers in general are still low enough you could high ball them by a factor of 3 and have issues. Its not about raids in game, my initial point was that people are trying to make "serious" raiding only encompassing two fights, and i used ultimate as a point to show how silly the mindset is, because for someone who beats that nothing in the game before is a serious raid any more. You were just a convenient example to show the dangers of making maxed out content a requirement to talk about stuff.

[KaivaC]

He's really the only data we have. And the numbers in general are still low enough you could high ball them by a factor of 3 and have issues. Its not about raids in game, my initial point was that people are trying to make "serious" raiding only encompassing two fights, and i used ultimate as a point to show how silly the mindset is, because for someone who beats that nothing in the game before is a serious raid any more.

You say you used ultimate...but ultimate was created specific with the hardcore in mind. You quote me and point me out, but I have not once stated that one needs to try Ultimate to have this discussion. As many of us have told you many many many many many many many times, O3S/O4S are the serious raids, thus if one has cleared at least one of these fights, then hey are more qualified to actually talk about enrage timers, difficulty, and such. But no, you did typical Riyah stuff and went straight to an extreme and chose Ultimate.

And on that note, if one is complaining about difficulty and enrage timers at this point (as in, not minimum iLvl, has learned the fight) on O1S and O2S, then the problem is the not the design of the fight - it's the player themselves

You were just a convenient example to show the dangers of making maxed out content a requirement to talk about stuff.

Such an irritating thing to say. And yet you still failed to even highlight that, because I have repeatedly said O3S...that is quite literally the halfway point of the previous raid tier. Again, if one cannot make it past the halfway point of the Deltascape tier, who are they to even bring up enrage timers? Let's be honest, if you have a halfway competent PUG group, you will not really hit the hard enrage timer on most content, provided you actually know how to do your jobs and understand the mechanics. With unsynced, the enrage timer is not really a factor in practically any of the ARR/HW primals or raids (I don't have experience with Alex savage, so anybody who recently did these at 70, feel free to correct me on the point on enrage timers.

Or were you trying to intentionally irritate me?

there simply aren't enough high skill players to make any game work.

And whose fault do you think that is? Because last I checked, it's not usually raiders complaining about the skill ceiling...it's more or less midcores and casuals who complain.

[MoroMurasaki]

But no, you did typical Riyah stuff and went straight to an extreme

You're usually so calm and cool but this... this is a gem. Thank you ma'am. You've brightened an otherwise boring day. Take all my likes, they're yours. Stand up to those crybullies! It's appreciated by those of us with less patience.

[Sebazy]

But no, you did typical Riyah stuff and went straight to an extreme and chose Ultimate.

Literally the truest thing spoken in this thread.

Riyah, I think the fact that you blindly stand by your initial opinion on things no matter how much cold hard truth is put before you is a bigger reason for you to avoid threads like these than any lack of experience. There is literally no point in trying to debate with you as you're just not interested in listening to what's being said.

[RiyahArp]

Riyah, I think the fact that you blindly stand by your initial opinion on things no matter how much cold hard truth is put before you is a bigger reason for you to avoid threads like these than any lack of experience. There is literally no point in trying to debate with you as you're just not interested in listening to what's being said.

i don't see truth, i see a lot of people misunderstanding my initial points and responding to what they want to hear. I didn't say anything particularly extreme in this recent exchange. It just boils down to "hey, you can do o1s and o2s and know what enrage means too, and have an opinion on it" and "you can't really build a game on the hardcore." Its just people really hate to hear anyone challenge them without doing so to concede right after, if its unpopular.