The time has come to get rid of enrage timers

[MagiusNecros]

I merely think it would simplify things. And if it gets more people clears while helping them be better players and doing better damage then why not?

[HyoMinPark]

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A lot of the newer encounters do not have phases/mechanics that you can skip (e.g., A11S—with high enough DPS, you could push Cruise Chaser to completely skip the Lapis phase and immediately segue into Eternal Darkness), so if one does a fight enough, they can get a rough idea of where they are in the fight based off of the mechanics going out (well, even in fights where you do push/skip, you can still do this).

Example: Neo’s enrage is at ~12:30. He begins to cast Neverwhere (the lead-up to the phase right before his enrage) at around ~10:50, followed by a Charybdis; Punchy-punches begin at around 11:17, meaning you have a little bit over a minute to down him before he starts the slow-casting Almagest that is his hard enrage.

Example 2: Exdeath’s enrage is a Meteor at ~4:50 if you don’t get him to 59% or lower before that time. After the second set of Black Holes appear, you know that you only have a White Hole, a Thunder III cast, and two Meteor casts to push him down to where he needs to be.

A lot of guide makers provide rough timelines of a boss’ mechanics; familiarizing one’s self with those timelines and the fights themselves will help players guesstimate where they are in a fight with regards to the timer. If you hit Neverwhere and Neo is at 40%, chances are you aren’t going to do 40% worth of damage in a minute and thirty seconds even with a melee LB3. That would then tell you that there’s some clean-up to do:
—Were there excessive amounts of deaths? Clean up mechanics/increase awareness to prevent that, as each death nets damage penalties.
—Were there no deaths? Okay, then look at individual players. Are they contributing enough? Are they using food? What about potions? How’s their gear? Do they need upgrades to push more damage (e.g., do they have a 310 weapon...perhaps we should get them a 330 or 335 weapon to help)? How is their damage? Do they need to work on their rotation? Are they using self-buffs? What about rBuffs like Trick Attack or Battle Litany to help with rDPS? (A few of these you can’t know without a tool like a parser/damage meter, but you can still try to make some adjustments to see if they will work.)

I merely think it would simplify things. And if it gets more people clears while helping them be better players and doing better damage then why not?

Extremes, Savage, and Ultimate are meant to be difficult fights. “Simplifying them” is not the answer. If a player doesn’t have the skill to beat Neo, then they should focus on self-improvement until they develop the skill to do so. They shouldn’t ask for content to be “dumbed down” or “simplified”. That just speaks to me like they don’t want to put forth the effort of hard work or self-improvement.

I also wanted to add to this: even if the developers did dumb down higher-end content, that doesn’t mean that the interest or clear rates are going to increase. Out of my group of friends, only 2 (excluding myself) are interested in doing Savage or Ultimate. A couple more are somewhat interested in Extreme trials, but a couple more aren’t interested in doing anything more than dailies roulettes and weekly 24-mans; I have one that does the Normal Mode 8-man raids just once for the story and then never touches them again.

If the interest isn’t there, you can’t make people run the content, no matter how dumbed-down or simple you make it. Make it too simple, and the more “hardcore” people that actually want a challenge will stop doing it.

[Vhailor]

Remove the enrage timers and you remove a large part of the impetus behind everyone trying to push out as much dps as possible. Right now, there is no choice; you either dps hard enough to avoid enrage/clear the check or you wipe. If SE is serious about not wanting the dps speed/efficiency meta to reign supreme, then they need to remove dps checks and enrage timers and let players choose whether they want to run a sprint or a marathon.

I disagree. I don't think the obsession with DPS trickles down from end-game Savage / Ultimate content (the stuff where enrage timers are typically featured); I think it trickles up from regular content. The goal of virtually every Duty in the game, after all, isn't just victory - it's endlessly repeated, spammed victories. That push, by definition, emphasizes speed above all else - and speed will always emphasize maximizing damage dealt. People are bred into this mindset in every instance they join, all the way from Sastasha to Expert Roulettes.

That said, I do think eliminating (or reducing) DPS checks and enrage timers would be useful for end-game content. I just don't think it's going to impact the push for more DPS in FFXIV, nor is it going to meaningfully reduce the complaints of people in the forums (most complaints about, for instance, tank stance, arise not from Savage / Ultimate runs; they arise from regular instances where newer healers are paired with aggressive tanks). There's a lot more work to be done than just eliminating DPS checks if SE is interested in reducing the focus on damage-dealing.

[MagiusNecros]

Unfortunately there are going to be a lot of players that will take the easy way out or otherwise cannot completely adopt the raiding mentality or have a lack of time to spend on specific fights due to having a job or other priorities within their own lives. Or being completely pathetic because they are L - A - Z -Y

In a coordinated party you aren't going to have these problems. In PUGS however or newly formed groups that coordination either isn't there or the players just want to do their own thing which in a Trinity based MMO isn't going to pan over well for a Team oriented fight that requires all players to be where they need to be at specific places and times as the situation demands.

You can look up a guide sure. You can go practice on a dummy to get a feel for how much dmg you need to put out. However you need the real fight experience to get anywhere. Showcasing a timer would just make things slightly easier. Could even limit it to an Echo buff in premade parties as an option.

For those that want the challenge of not having a visible timer telling you to do so much dmg in that specific phase.

Options are good. But don't fret I'm sure things will stay the same and follow the same formula it has been. As intended.

[HyoMinPark]

Unfortunately there are going to be a lot of players that will take the easy way out or otherwise cannot completely adopt the raiding mentality or have a lack of time to spend on specific fights due to having a job or other priorities within their own lives. Or being completely pathetic because they are L - A - Z -Y

If a person wants to clear something, regardless of how much time they have to spend on a fight, they will find a way to dedicate the time and effort to get their clear. People that hide behind the excuses of “I don’t have enough time to earn a clear” or “I don’t have enough time to dedicate to getting better” should probably not step foot in content that requires such time and effort until they can actively dedicate themselves to it.

And, I’m sorry, I don’t believe that lazy individuals should have things made easier just so that they can continue to be lazy. Put forth the effort, or don’t do the content.

In a coordinated party you aren't going to have these problems. In PUGS however or newly formed groups that coordination either isn't there or the players just want to do their own thing which in a Trinity based MMO isn't going to pan over well for a Team oriented fight that requires all players to be where they need to be at specific places and times as the situation demands.

This is why you have “PUG strats” for fights, and you clarify said strats before you even begin a pull.

Example: V3S and Library Phase—players call out square numbers before a pull to mark the specific spot where they will be for Folio mechanics.
Example 2: V4S and Delta Attack—players call out their cardinal/off-cardinal direction they’re going to run to when Delta Attack is about to go out.
Example 3: Grand Cross strats—Uptime for Grand Cross Delta and “Die to first/third laser” for Grand Cross Omega.
Example 4: ShinEx and discussing tankbuster strats for Ahk Morn—share, immunity, immunity; immunity, share, immunity; etc..

PUG strats exist to make pugging the content easier to coordinate when it comes to random players.

You can look up a guide sure. You can go practice on a dummy to get a feel for how much dmg you need to put out. However you need the real fight experience to get anywhere.

Which is why you get into those learning parties and learn; you don’t ask for things to be made easier.

Showcasing a timer would just make things slightly easier.

As I stated before, a timer isn’t necessary if you understand the mechanical timeline of the fights, and can guesstimate where you roughly are in a fight. If you are about to see the second set of Black Holes and Exdeath isn’t at sub-70% health, you probably aren’t going to make his enrage. If you hit Neverwhere and Neo is at 40% health, you aren’t going to make his enrage. Learn from that and improve.

Could even limit it to an Echo buff in premade parties as an option.

All Savage fights get Echo once they’re no longer part of a relevant tier anyways. No need to add it in earlier than that.

[Raim]

Players impose strict group composition, not enrage timers. You can do all this content in a timely manner with a less than optimal composition. Its a cultural issue that people insist on meta comps to make up for it as a crutch.

[Selova]

They are never going to do this, ever. Do you have any idea how broken fights would be without enrage timers/DPS checks? Do you have any idea what the comps would even look like when there is zero risk to failing a fight and all you have to do is run out the clock? I highly doubt FFXIV is going to try to "break the mold" when it comes to changing how boss fights work, considering every boss in MMO's are all tuned and designed around their enrage timers.

Their seems to be this on-going trend lately with all these "armchair developers" requesting drastic changes like this while having zero understanding or experience how fights are designed for endgame. Why don't we leave it to the professionals instead of making such ridiculous suggestions, especially when you have no idea what you are even talking about. Thanks.

[KaivaC]

I disagree on the grounds that players should not be allowed to basically outlast the trial. Healers have the tools to basically ensure that you're guaranteed to win without the enrage. Perhaps mini Dps and healer checks, if we do go that route. I like that with the old primals, you have to do mechanics or it will be a wipe.

[AxlStream]

I disagree on the grounds that players should not be allowed to basically outlast the trial. Healers have the tools to basically ensure that you're guaranteed to win without the enrage. Perhaps mini Dps and healer checks, if we do go that route. I like that with the old primals, you have to do mechanics or it will be a wipe.

We already have a healer check. It's called Almagest.

[Vhailor]

They are never going to do this, ever. Do you have any idea how broken fights would be without enrage timers/DPS checks? Do you have any idea what the comps would even look like when there is zero risk to failing a fight and all you have to do is run out the clock? I highly doubt FFXIV is going to try to "break the mold" when it comes to changing how boss fights work, considering every boss in MMO's are all tuned and designed around their enrage timers.

Their seems to be this on-going trend lately with all these "armchair developers" requesting drastic changes like this while having zero understanding or experience how fights are designed for endgame. Why don't we leave it to the professionals instead of making such ridiculous suggestions, especially when you have no idea what you are even talking about. Thanks.

These same "professionals" are the same people who created both versions of Diadem; the same people responsible for the god-awful Glamour system we've had for years; the same people responsible for the upcoming terrible "fix" to the MSQ roulette.

Gamers may not have the same amount of expertise, but those of us who spend lots of time in MMOs are essentially highly-qualified third-party QA testers. Our feedback has significant value.

Also, bosses in MMOs haven't always been built around Enrage timers. Look at FFXI for an example; very little content involved any sort of mechanic of this sort - and it allowed for tremendously creative strategies that involved multiple off-duty parties / alliances to slowly chip away at a tough creature. It didn't magically break the game. This isn't some out-of-left-field suggestion, and it's ignorant of you to suggest as much.

I disagree on the grounds that players should not be allowed to basically outlast the trial. Healers have the tools to basically ensure that you're guaranteed to win without the enrage. Perhaps mini Dps and healer checks, if we do go that route. I like that with the old primals, you have to do mechanics or it will be a wipe.

May I ask why? Why not allow for 6x Healer / 2x Tank parties if they work, for pre-made groups? They'd take forever to bring a boss down; nobody would opt for them as a first choice unless they simply couldn't get a win with a faster setup.

Mechanics, incidentally, would still need to be followed. Most of the mechanics in harder content will wipe the group - regardless of composition - if they're ignored or whiffed on very badly.