The time has come to get rid of enrage timers

[KaivaC]

One fight doesn't constitute getting rid of enrage though. Admittedly I haven't gotten around to reading the full thread yet. I'll get to that in a bit then reply in more detail... That was just my initial response.

[Vhailor]

They are never going to do this, ever. Do you have any idea how broken fights would be without enrage timers/DPS checks? Do you have any idea what the comps would even look like when there is zero risk to failing a fight and all you have to do is run out the clock? I highly doubt FFXIV is going to try to "break the mold" when it comes to changing how boss fights work, considering every boss in MMO's are all tuned and designed around their enrage timers.

Their seems to be this on-going trend lately with all these "armchair developers" requesting drastic changes like this while having zero understanding or experience how fights are designed for endgame. Why don't we leave it to the professionals instead of making such ridiculous suggestions, especially when you have no idea what you are even talking about. Thanks.

These same "professionals" are the same people who created both versions of Diadem; the same people responsible for the god-awful Glamour system we've had for years; the same people responsible for the upcoming terrible "fix" to the MSQ roulette.

Gamers may not have the same amount of expertise, but those of us who spend lots of time in MMOs are essentially highly-qualified third-party QA testers. Our feedback has significant value.

Also, bosses in MMOs haven't always been built around Enrage timers. Look at FFXI for an example; very little content involved any sort of mechanic of this sort - and it allowed for tremendously creative strategies that involved multiple off-duty parties / alliances to slowly chip away at a tough creature. It didn't magically break the game. This isn't some out-of-left-field suggestion, and it's ignorant of you to suggest as much.

I disagree on the grounds that players should not be allowed to basically outlast the trial. Healers have the tools to basically ensure that you're guaranteed to win without the enrage. Perhaps mini Dps and healer checks, if we do go that route. I like that with the old primals, you have to do mechanics or it will be a wipe.

May I ask why? Why not allow for 6x Healer / 2x Tank parties if they work, for pre-made groups? They'd take forever to bring a boss down; nobody would opt for them as a first choice unless they simply couldn't get a win with a faster setup.

Mechanics, incidentally, would still need to be followed. Most of the mechanics in harder content will wipe the group - regardless of composition - if they're ignored or whiffed on very badly.

[KDSilver]

=> When you realize it might really be the time to stop reading post on official forum.

[KaivaC]

I will say this though, before I read through the thread in full and respond to other posters, I really feel that the skill level of many players need to rise up before these types of threads are made. When we start seeing fewer players messing up on easier fights like Hashmal on a weekly basis, then this would have more validity

[Zojha]

May I ask why? Why not allow for 6x Healer / 2x Tank parties if they work, for pre-made groups?

Because for the sake of fairness, you would then also have to allow for 6x DPS / 2x Tank parties to work. And for 6x Healer / 2x DPS parties. And all other similar compositions. If you are forcing healers or tanks into the group composition by mechanics other roles cannot deal with, it is only fair you also do the same with DPS. Conversely, if you were to remove mechanics that require DPS, you should also remove mechanics that require tanks/healers. Or, give DPS the tools to deal with them in the same way healers/tanks can deal with DPS mechanics.

[NolLacnala]

Yes, let's remove the one responsibility DPS actually have.

[AdamFyi]

Perhaps mini Dps and healer checks, if we do go that route. I like that with the old primals, you have to do mechanics or it will be a wipe.

Here’s the thing though; there was debate and criticisms back during 2.X with boss design and mechanics centred around killing you in a single hit should you fail the mechanic i.e. Melusine’s pre-nerf Petrify and Renauds, and Rafflesia’s Blighted Bouquet and Bees. These mechanics were the prominent mechanics in their respective encounters which ramped up the difficulty for many players. While these one-shot mechanics still exists in many of the recent encounters, it has been toned down to be much more forgiving but difficult to tackle e.g. healer checks where the boss drops the party’s HP to low amounts followed by an immediately tank buster on the low HP tank. I quite like the current encounter design, but I’d thought I’d point out an old discussion on the matter.

Edit: Quickly going to put it out there that I agree with you; enrage timers need to stay. Removing it would be a horrible decision.

[Selova]

snip.

You are basing this on the assumption that the devs that were responsible for Diadem are the same ones in charge of boss tuning and mechanics, which is almost never the case.


While there are intelligent people out there that provide great feedback, they are in the minority. Also, making such a stupid suggestion like removing enrage timers is not "great feedback" sorry.
I also find it hilarious that you are drawing comparisons from a 10+ year old MMO where the only challenging aspect of encounters was find the amount of people to sit there for hours on end whittling away on bosses that were about as complex as a one block rubix cube.


We aren't living in the early 2000s anymore, mmos develop over-time and change. If you seriously think that removing enrage timers is any kind of solution and that it won't break the current endgame, you are the one that's ignorant. End of story.

[Ellyrion]

Full disclosure; I didn't read through the entire thread. Apologies if this has been brought up.

We are mostly talking about the results of a couple of different issues here. Enrage timers and DPS checks are a result of the game design, not a design choice themselves. To elaborate further, due to the low required healing, and the very passive mitigation, there is not a lot for healers and tanks to do outside of DPS for large portions of any given fight.

The passive/low healing requirements and passive mitigation are choices that were made back when ARR was in the works, possibly sooner, as they have been with us since day one, while the various boss mechanics have not. Because of this design, there has to be some type of check to ensure that high-end content isn't won through simple attrition.

Before anyone says, "but they could add more mechanics that require teamwork to overcome and increase the chance of a wipe", I'd like to point out that this is simply attrition from the other side. Extend the length of the fight, add more mechanics, increase probability that the attrition war is lost by players. This simply makes fights longer, and increases player fatigue. In order to remove DPS checks and enrages, there has to be a complete shift away from passive survival towards active survival, but technical limitations like roadblock that path as it stands (look at any buffs delay from when you cast it to when it actually works).

The other issue is that there is an expectation by a subset of the population that there will be challenging content. Savage/Ultimate, from what I have seen, read, and understand, is not intended for everyone to clear. If it were, it would be tied to the MSQ like the trials used to be, and no one liked that. So you have to make a decision - make the content easier and open it up to the entire playerbase and add NEW content for the challenge-seekers, or leave it as it is. If we continue down the path of bringing down content to make it accessible while adding new content at a higher difficult level, we just end up kicking the can down the road and have 5 or 6 different difficulty levels without fixing anything. As a playerbase, we just need to accept that not all content is for every player, and so do the designers.

Apologies for the length.

[Nhadaly]

The enrage timers in this game are already very lax, you dont need to be a top player to clear them, you just need to just be average at best at your class and execute the mechanics.

And removing them will do nothing, in fact, it will dumb down the raids and make them appeal to the lowest common denominator which is not what raiding is about in the first place.