Monk 4.2 Adjustments

[SpeckledBurd]

They made the correction to the live update thread: Only Riddle of Wind will apply Greased Lightning, not Wind Tackle.

Translation: Tackle Mastery is still more or less a meme, the most this does is give us one extra bootshine in our opener and there's nothing to be excited about.

[Metalwrath]

Translation: Tackle Mastery is still more or less a meme, the most this does is give us one extra bootshine in our opener and there's nothing to be excited about.

It also means when we lose stacks though we can form shift then tackle and demolish to get instant 2 stacks of GL.which if you think about it isnt that bad.
My bigger gripes are the skills that sit there with no use.Tornado kick and arm of destroyer.I'd be happy if we just got touch of death back to replace one of those.

[BucklesTrespen]

It also means when we lose stacks though we can form shift then tackle and demolish to get instant 2 stacks of GL.which if you think about it isnt that bad.

Then when you rethink about it - and realize we have to do the following to get that effect:

1) Shoulder Tackle must not be on cooldown - so a move with decent potency should be removed/delayed from our DPS rotation on the off chance we get targeted by a mechanic.
2) Go into Fists of Wind.
3) Wind Tackle.
4) Riddle of Wind. (GL refreshed / granted)
5) Go back into Fists of Fire.

It's a pretty crap way of handling the issue - putting it behind 3 keystrokes - 4 really because we will always go back into FoF afterwards.

At this point the Riddles, the tackles - everything that came with SB Monk - and Monk on whole, needs a complete overhaul.

[Metalwrath]

Then when you rethink about it - and realize we have to do the following to get that effect:

1) Shoulder Tackle must not be on cooldown - so a move with decent potency should be removed/delayed from our DPS rotation on the off chance we get targeted by a mechanic.
2) Go into Fists of Wind.
3) Wind Tackle.
4) Riddle of Wind. (GL refreshed / granted)
5) Go back into Fists of Fire.

It's a pretty crap way of handling the issue - putting it behind 3 keystrokes - 4 really because we will always go back into FoF afterwards.

At this point the Riddles, the tackles - everything that came with SB Monk - and Monk on whole, needs a complete overhaul.

Shoulder tackle is usually on cooldown during GL downtime phases.If you know the fight mechanics you will know where you are useing it.
And to be honest i dont want to see a noob friendly way of keeping up GL.It defeats the purpose of it being a high skill high reward job.

[wereotter]

Shoulder tackle is usually on cooldown during GL downtime phases.If you know the fight mechanics you will know where you are useing it.
And to be honest i dont want to see a noob friendly way of keeping up GL.It defeats the purpose of it being a high skill high reward job.

The question, as I see it, will become is a 130 potency move worth it if it means that you might lose all three stacks of greased lightning? How much potency will potentially be lost if you also can't RoE during that downtime, or if the jump comes right before you were about to refresh GL? It's a question of is that one move going to be worth the potency loss of missing stacks of GL later?

I think this will become an issue where monks have to be smart about when and how cool downs are used rather than just spamming them as they come up.

[Shurrikhan]

The question, as I see it, will become is a 130 potency move worth it if it means that you might lose all three stacks of greased lightning? How much potency will potentially be lost if you also can't RoE during that downtime, or if the jump comes right before you were about to refresh GL? It's a question of is that one move going to be worth the potency loss of missing stacks of GL later?

I think this will become an issue where monks have to be smart about when and how cool downs are used rather than just spamming them as they come up.

The thing is, unless they're stopwatching absolute-time phase transitions, none of the relevant information is likely to be there by which to weigh one's choices when either the cooldown readiness or the event requiring it (which will almost certainly be merely conditional, as RoW can only grant up to 2 GCDs longer a duration) occurs.

You can now get a GCD more GL if the jump occurs at Opo-opo, 2 more if at Raptor, or one more non-Coeurl skills during PB. ...That's it.

While RoE is still rendered useless by a full shield or any jump transition without damage within the 10 to 16 second initial window AND within the >16 seconds latter window...

[Deceptus]

And to be honest i dont want to see a noob friendly way of keeping up GL.It defeats the purpose of it being a high skill high reward job.

This. . . this is just a bad elitist attitude.

You realize if it creates too much of a skills gap they're just going to nerf it right?

[Metalwrath]

This. . . this is just a bad elitist attitude.

You realize if it creates too much of a skills gap they're just going to nerf it right?

No its not an elitist attitude.Hate the way people throw that word around for no reason.
The fact is that monk has always been about being the high skill ceiling melee dps with the reward of high dps.
If you take that away then you take away the draw of playing monk in the first place.
Giving 2 stacks of gl on wind would be rediculous and probably encourage people to not pay attention to their stacks.

[wereotter]

No its not an elitist attitude.Hate the way people throw that word around for no reason.
The fact is that monk has always been about being the high skill ceiling melee dps with the reward of high dps.
If you take that away then you take away the draw of playing monk in the first place.
Giving 2 stacks of gl on wind would be rediculous and probably encourage people to not pay attention to their stacks.

One of the big things this expansion, though, was to reduce the floor/ceiling disparity for players on a job. That's why you saw things like the changes to the cast times on BRD/MCH and Enochian being attached to just being in Astral Fire/Umbral Ice. They're intentionally making jobs easier to play so that more players can play more jobs without suffering.

There will always be a gap between novice and master players of a job, but they want to make that gap as small as possible, and if more opportunities to gain and maintain the core job mechanic of monk are introduced, making it easier to play, then that's not a bad thing. New players to the job will have an easier time getting into it, and master players will figure out how to best utilize these skills to their full potential.

[Mahrze]

This. . . this is just a bad elitist attitude.

You realize if it creates too much of a skills gap they're just going to nerf it right?

Personally, I disagree. MNK has always been a high skill job. Ramp up and keeping your stacks, the positional req bonus damage, knowing how to weave and burn your OGCD abilities. As mindless as it can be seen at times, MNK requires quite the attention.

There will always be a gap between novice and master players of a job, but they want to make that gap as small as possible, and if more opportunities to gain and maintain the core job mechanic of monk are introduced, making it easier to play, then that's not a bad thing. New players to the job will have an easier time getting into it, and master players will figure out how to best utilize these skills to their full potential.

This exactly, but I can't disregard his point when I see MNKs (and DPS in general) make poor use of their abilities. And no, I am not talking about you have to be 90th percentile or get out. I m talking about seeing MNKs standing with the tank, hitting the mob/boss and ignoring positionals.

...

I mean, if they need to QoL SB abilities at this point, RoE should deny getting any shield just like Darkside doesn't allow you to get any MP, forcing MNK to take the hit; I mean, we have like 20% def bonus at one point, might as well make it worthwhile.


Way too many things can be proposed, which to me shows how MNK doesn't have a design focus.