Why?

[Big_Panda]

I keep hearing one of two ways:

your reward is based on the amount of aggro you get hence the suggestion to go tank

based on the total dps of the entire party (from 1 to 8 people) which indirectly determines your total aggro

[Squintina]

I keep hearing one of two ways:

your reward is based on the amount of aggro you get hence the suggestion to go tank

based on the total dps of the entire party (from 1 to 8 people) which indirectly determines your total aggro

It's a mixture of both.
Your reward is based on enmity.
The entire party gets enmity totaled (not damage, though damage does generate enmity so an all-dps party can still generate lots of enmity through their total dps, but it is based on enmity), more people = more total enmity.

Here's an example with completely made-up numbers.
The example is simplified for illustrative purposes and is not meant to be 100% accurate.

Let's say you needed 100 enmity to qualify.
Solo: tank doesn't get rotation quite right (or came in late or died early) and only accumulates 80. Partial credit (Silver in fate, about 60-80% of rewards in hunts).
Solo: tank goes all out with 110 enmity. Full credit.
Party 1: DPS get 20, and there's a party of 6 dps. 6x20 = 120 for the whole party. Full credit to all players in party.
Party 2: DPS get 20, 4 DPS, healer gets 60. 20x4 + 60 = 140 for the whole party. Full credit to all players in party.
Yes multiple parties can get full credit. Not sure if there's a limit.


Therefore it's easier for people to get enough TOTAL enmity in a party than solo, but it IS possible for a tank (or a healer who does 1 hit then all heals) to get lots of credit while solo. It would be more difficult for a solo DPS unless their numbers were absolutely massive enough to generate enough enmity through their damage.

Also note that if you DIE your personal enmity gets reset (not sure if it's a full reset, but we had a test on a hunt where a solo tank did a lot of enmity, died at like 10% left on the mob, and he got very little hunt rewards, like 2 seals or something, he probably would have gotten full credit had he not died, so if it's not a full reset, it's still a significant drop). That means if you're solo you have to build it all back up before the fight ends, but if you're in a party, you still have your teammates' enmity helping you.

so if you go to that made up example for party 2, and let's say 2 of the dps die and only have enough time to get 3 enmity each.
2 dps x 20 + 2 dps x 3 + 1 healer x 60 = 106 (and in this made-up example, 100 was needed to get full credit), the whole party still gets full credit.

[Melichoir]

The system works pretty much that it lump sums everyone together in a party towards contribution. Meaning, if you have 8 people in a party, each person will get their own contribution + the contributions of all party members. It's done this way on purpose so that Healers and Tanks are also getting their fair share of contribution, since the best way to measure how much a person contributes is by DPS dealt.

This does mean that if youre not in a party, youre at a disadvantage because compared to full parties, youre getting 1/8th the contribution. Sucks to suck, but the system is the best one we got at the moment. You choosing to say "No, I dont want to hop into a party for this open world boss" is going to have concequences. I mean, even in a pragmatic sense, there is no reason NOT to party as it is impossible to solo these bosses, and there are no loot rewards awarded to players at an individual level. There is no individual player competition for world bosses, short of ensuring you get gold. So there is no real reason to NOT party and choosing not to is completely on you. Youre hamstringing yourself.

[Vivi_Bushido]

doesnt matter, people should be able to play the way they want to at the time. There is NO reason whatsoever that is good enough to lock people out of loot they earned just because they didnt join a party.

Literally never played another mmo that has done it before, so this needs to be changed

The following picture is why people shouldn't be able to play anyway they want to.



It's a multiplayer game designed to be played with other people, that focuses on team building and communicating.

[BillyKaplan]

I'd argue the problem with the system isn't that parties get more credit but that you apparently can be locked out of credit altogether because of the limit on how many enemies the boss can actually acknowledge e.e at least now I know why sometimes half my party doesn't even get agro bars lmao.

[alimdia]

Don't forget there is a maximum of slots on the enmity list of enemies.
If your not on the list you get no contribution.
You can check it if you are looking at your enmity bar.
It fills or you have an enmity order number? Gratz your on the enmity list and get contribution.
It doesn't fill or you have no enmity order number? Too bad, but you don't get contribution.

This phenomen can be seen by all huge bosses, like S-Hunts, Ixion or others of this type when a huge crowd of people try to kill it.

The enmity UI can suffer from desync, I've done S ranks with too many people where I never got any enmity and was considered out of combat the entire fight, but I still got rewards. Normally you don't get any rewards even if you're in a party if you don't contribute in any way, so the server is properly receiving my contribution information, but it can't send it back to the client properly and keeps me out of combat.

[Lilseph]

Snip

Responding this and your comment above, I don't see any issue with the current system.

It encourages you to group with other people if you want full credit. Not even as a tank you're guaranteed to get full credit btw. If the monster dies super fast, you won't have the chance to build enough emnity to get enough credit for it. The example you mention is an issue with every aspect of the game. People sometimes will get carried. You name it: Dungeons, trials, raids, FATEs (you can even kill stuff and move to the other FATE as people still finish the one you left), other overworld content. The only thing YOU can do is to concern about your own thing. Get a group, you'll know that most people will contribute, get the credit, thank them and leave. Easy. I don't see any issue with it.

Why is the "soloing" part so important when it's so easy to party up with others (as they are damn spamming/inviting others to do it). Specially in an MMO. Coming from old school MMOs, this request (OPs) seems silly, I'm sorry.

[LeeraSorlan]

snip

my issue with it is that it doesnt encourage playing with a party, it more or less requires it..if you are doing any sort of popular hunt or fate thats current where there are hundreds of playing, you are basically not going to get full credit solo, id go as far as to say its impossible. thats my issue..sure its easy to join a party, sure youll get full credit in a party...but why cant we do both? if getting full credit out of a party was an achievable feat..not including the times where theres like 10 people around the hunt but upwards of 200+ then id have no complaints, even if it required you to be good at the job you are playing to get that full credit

[LordLonghammer]

doesnt matter, people should be able to play the way they want to at the time.

You infact did play the way you wanted to and got the expected result of doing so. If you were eating soup with a fork, would you have a hissy fit that you arnt being rewarded the amount of soup in your mouth people with spoons are? In theory you would be doing the same amount of work in both situations ones just more rewarding.

Instead of being difficult and asking the devs to change something that doesn't need changed type 3 letters I...N...V... Then click yes and you're all good to go.

Protip: for an advanced immersive Kirito solo legend experience. Turn off your party list. Don't worry about turning off party chat. It's most likely no one will speak.

[BillyKaplan]

my issue with it is that it doesnt encourage playing with a party, it more or less requires it..

You must've been a world of fun when you discovered Sastasha.
This is an MMO, and this is open world content. The end-game of open world content. If there're 100 people there, fight gets shorter, you have less time to built up your credit. Makes sense you'd party up with other people between the shorter time and the more people to compete against. There's also absolutely zero reason to not party when you stop to think about it because you're keeping yourself out of utility and heals.