Why?

[Big_Panda]

I keep hearing one of two ways:

your reward is based on the amount of aggro you get hence the suggestion to go tank

based on the total dps of the entire party (from 1 to 8 people) which indirectly determines your total aggro

[Squintina]

I keep hearing one of two ways:

your reward is based on the amount of aggro you get hence the suggestion to go tank

based on the total dps of the entire party (from 1 to 8 people) which indirectly determines your total aggro

It's a mixture of both.
Your reward is based on enmity.
The entire party gets enmity totaled (not damage, though damage does generate enmity so an all-dps party can still generate lots of enmity through their total dps, but it is based on enmity), more people = more total enmity.

Here's an example with completely made-up numbers.
The example is simplified for illustrative purposes and is not meant to be 100% accurate.

Let's say you needed 100 enmity to qualify.
Solo: tank doesn't get rotation quite right (or came in late or died early) and only accumulates 80. Partial credit (Silver in fate, about 60-80% of rewards in hunts).
Solo: tank goes all out with 110 enmity. Full credit.
Party 1: DPS get 20, and there's a party of 6 dps. 6x20 = 120 for the whole party. Full credit to all players in party.
Party 2: DPS get 20, 4 DPS, healer gets 60. 20x4 + 60 = 140 for the whole party. Full credit to all players in party.
Yes multiple parties can get full credit. Not sure if there's a limit.


Therefore it's easier for people to get enough TOTAL enmity in a party than solo, but it IS possible for a tank (or a healer who does 1 hit then all heals) to get lots of credit while solo. It would be more difficult for a solo DPS unless their numbers were absolutely massive enough to generate enough enmity through their damage.

Also note that if you DIE your personal enmity gets reset (not sure if it's a full reset, but we had a test on a hunt where a solo tank did a lot of enmity, died at like 10% left on the mob, and he got very little hunt rewards, like 2 seals or something, he probably would have gotten full credit had he not died, so if it's not a full reset, it's still a significant drop). That means if you're solo you have to build it all back up before the fight ends, but if you're in a party, you still have your teammates' enmity helping you.

so if you go to that made up example for party 2, and let's say 2 of the dps die and only have enough time to get 3 enmity each.
2 dps x 20 + 2 dps x 3 + 1 healer x 60 = 106 (and in this made-up example, 100 was needed to get full credit), the whole party still gets full credit.

[Melichoir]

The system works pretty much that it lump sums everyone together in a party towards contribution. Meaning, if you have 8 people in a party, each person will get their own contribution + the contributions of all party members. It's done this way on purpose so that Healers and Tanks are also getting their fair share of contribution, since the best way to measure how much a person contributes is by DPS dealt.

This does mean that if youre not in a party, youre at a disadvantage because compared to full parties, youre getting 1/8th the contribution. Sucks to suck, but the system is the best one we got at the moment. You choosing to say "No, I dont want to hop into a party for this open world boss" is going to have concequences. I mean, even in a pragmatic sense, there is no reason NOT to party as it is impossible to solo these bosses, and there are no loot rewards awarded to players at an individual level. There is no individual player competition for world bosses, short of ensuring you get gold. So there is no real reason to NOT party and choosing not to is completely on you. Youre hamstringing yourself.

[BillyKaplan]

I'd argue the problem with the system isn't that parties get more credit but that you apparently can be locked out of credit altogether because of the limit on how many enemies the boss can actually acknowledge e.e at least now I know why sometimes half my party doesn't even get agro bars lmao.

[LordLonghammer]

doesnt matter, people should be able to play the way they want to at the time.

You infact did play the way you wanted to and got the expected result of doing so. If you were eating soup with a fork, would you have a hissy fit that you arnt being rewarded the amount of soup in your mouth people with spoons are? In theory you would be doing the same amount of work in both situations ones just more rewarding.

Instead of being difficult and asking the devs to change something that doesn't need changed type 3 letters I...N...V... Then click yes and you're all good to go.

Protip: for an advanced immersive Kirito solo legend experience. Turn off your party list. Don't worry about turning off party chat. It's most likely no one will speak.

[Squintina]

It would indeed just be a QOL change. Because of how easily it can be circumvented, it wouldn't be particularly important, but that can be said about many QOL things.

I am surprised though that no one has mentioned the one time the whole partying thing really blows though. People who are suffering long DPS (or pvp) queues might be going out and doing fates/hunts while waiting and therefore cannot join/change parties unless they want to lose their spot in the queue.

Still would just be a QOL change, as most such players accept that their credit will be minimized and just want to do something while they wait, but I'm sure they wouldn't mind if it was changed to let them have a better shot.

[BillyKaplan]

I am surprised though that no one has mentioned the one time the whole partying thing really blows though. People who are suffering long DPS (or pvp) queues might be going out and doing fates/hunts while waiting and therefore cannot join/change parties unless they want to lose their spot in the queue.

If you can't get adequate credit on an on-level FATE solo with your bird out, you need to take a good long hard look at your gear and rotation. The only FATEs where you really can't solo them on your own are the boss FATEs and even then we're talking most likely the achievement ones that weren't meant to be cleared by solo players in the first place.

[LeeraSorlan]

If you can't get adequate credit on an on-level FATE solo with your bird out, you need to take a good long hard look at your gear and rotation. The only FATEs where you really can't solo them on your own are the boss FATEs and even then we're talking most likely the achievement ones that weren't meant to be cleared by solo players in the first place.

dont be a selective reader, he also mentioned hunts.

He makes valid points, i was arguing over the why nots of the issue and didnt even think of the times you are on a forever DPS que when that S rank pops.

[BillyKaplan]

dont be a selective reader, he also mentioned hunts.

Which I've gotten full credit on solo on numerous occasions unless there were billions of people so ya know. Isn't an issue. That said.

He makes valid points, i was arguing over the why nots of the issue and didnt even think of the times you are on a forever DPS que when that S rank pops.

Hunts are their own problematic system and require you to make that choice regardless of what you're queued as. It would've been wonderful if you could solo this game but it's an MMO where other players can play the game and get that S rank even if you drop queue regardless.

[Squintina]

If you can't get adequate credit on an on-level FATE solo with your bird out, you need to take a good long hard look at your gear and rotation. The only FATEs where you really can't solo them on your own are the boss FATEs and even then we're talking most likely the achievement ones that weren't meant to be cleared by solo players in the first place.

I hope that's a general "you" and not actually aimed specifically at me. I just party up.

I only mentioned that because that is something I have seen in boss fates and hunts where someone WANTS to party with nearby players but can't because of a queue. In other words those players aren't trying to solo group content, they solo in the sense that they don't join a party but they do have other players nearby, they simply do not join the party because to do so would mean losing their place in the queue. Because of that they might not get as many rewards. (and I also said most such players accept that fact no problem, but that I'm sure they would like if SE ever decided to come up with a different system in which they ranked better)

Also this thread was kind of aimed at boss fates since the OP mentioned Ixion (and then people went into hunts because the crediting system is so similar), so not sure why you felt the need to mention regular fates. Pretty much anyone can solo (actual solo) regular fates as long as they know their rotation and have appropriate gear , but that wasn't the topic AT ALL.

Just to clarify I do not think adjustments are necessary, they would just be a "nice to have", a QOL (in my mind). I'm quite content with the existing system but that doesn't mean I don't have the ability to empathize with others and see merits to their opinions.

After all, I also wrote earlier:

Well you asked "why" and you were answered. Whether it's a good system or not, well that's subjective.

Personally I find that even without asking for an invite there are usually PF up you can join without asking, or you can make one and incoming people will join it, so it's not really a big deal (and because of that I doubt the devs will spend the effort needed to fix something that can be so easily circumvented, regardless of whether it's good or not, especially when there isn't a general concensus that it's bad.)

Doing full tank enmity (or doing 1 hit as a healer and then going full heal spam) is one way to get full or near-full credit solo, though it's not guaranteed.