This is why this game should'nt get a parse

[Fannah]

My whole message is just made in order to make things more clear in a positive way.

Your last several posts defended players who did the bare minimum.

You misunderstood what I said, and I maybe expressed myself poorly, I don't know. I wrote :
1rst message p.30 :

In a way, he is right. As long as his dps isn't so low he could be considered carried according to the dps needed for the fight. [...] If he is so low in the way if 3 other players like him would be here, they would have seen the boss rage, then yea he is too low.

2nd message p.30 :

Avoid playing with randoms the most you can. Some people can't even dodge big orange aoe on the ground. So don't ask them to be perfect at dps while they are focusing hard on dodging a mechanic when they certainly don't even would have a good rotation on a dummy.

Just to be sure, being perfect was a way of speech again in a funny way because it was underlining the difference with people who are so bad they can't even dodge an orange aoe on the ground (I thought people would got it). My quote means : "Avoid playing with randoms because overall they suck hard". It wasn't supposed to defend them but more to laugh at them as I gave up on that and only play with static.

3rd message p.31 :

So just kick or restart if the content is unclearable because of that player, it's just obvious.

Still not defending them for being bad.

4rth message p.31 :

Yes, going in Savage expect people to be good or at least to aim for improvement. Casuals wanting to stay casual shouldn't get there.
As I said, it's only a problem if they are a burden in a meaningful way.

I believe we agree about this.

5th message p.32 is irrelevant about that, except meaning I thought the topic was about parsers overall, not especially about high level content only. Maybe that's why we didn't get each others for a while.

6th message p.32 :

we have a Dragoon being harrased on a savage content, and the average to get as DRG is 1000 dps [...] imagine the Dragoon is doing 1200 (so 20% above what's expected) but his 3 other dps are doing 60% more than what is needed/expected from their classes.

It was just numbers, with exagerated differences to express they were all above average players. If you prefer, he is at 1200 and all others at 1300 and what is needed is 1000. I don't believe it's what is called being carried as the DRG already is a player way above the average.

If you're good enough to clear the content [...] why should you improve that much to please random perfectionnists who are not even your friends or in your static?

I admit I expressed really poorly on this one, my apologies, it wasn't obvious at all. On this exact exemple, I meant it as a thought from the good enough player who's getting harassed, and "perfectionnist" was actually a way of censorship about what that player will actually think at this moment. On top of that, those called the perfectionnist here are the harrassers, not the pro-parsers (I'm pro-parser, and I'm not calling myself a perfectionnist. People made up I was telling they were perfectionnists because they were pro-parsers. There is not only one kind of people using parsers. I'm wondering why people thought so).

And I wasn't aware disagreeing with you was an attack.

"To attack someone with an argument" was a way of speech, I see how you actually took it and it was not supposed to be taken this way. Maybe language problem of mine, I can't know. I didn't feel like "offended" etc, anyway. It was really just to say you use an argument against another argument.

it’s probably best to not use absolutes like “perfect” or “perfection” in your arguments. I quoted that part of your posts specifically because you said it several times, and that is a common argument that is used when people are trying to advocate for being against parsers

I understand, but I didn't express I was against parsers. People made it up. I was not talking about you guys being rude/perfectionnists but the harasser to be one if the harrassed was way above the average already.

My 1rst post was :

If he brings enough dps, he can accept to stop his progression here as long as he's not a burden

People made up I was talking about a guy under average (Just need to read all the post saying I was defending bad players, when I didn't even defended them :

I will take the same logic you used okay ? "why should we bother taking someone so bad while other DPS do great ? "

However, while I don't expect perfection, I do expect a decent level of competence in Savage.

(So do I)

God forbid we want to hold players accountable. What terrible, awful people were are. Here's a novel idea, if you can't dodge giant orange markers, how about staying out of harder content? Why am I obligated to carry bad players just because they want to participate?

Never said you had to.

But I cannot for the life of me understand why, if casuals go into any high-end duty content, they won't look for areas of improvement? Why stay mediocre and drag on a fight?

Never said the opposite.

But in OP's case, she was doing barely enough. The WAR in the group was 2nd in dps. If every single dps performed at her level, they would have hit enrage and not be able to clear the content. Not saying it's okay to harass people but it shouldn't be a crime to tell people how they really did.

I was not talking about OP's case :/ I believe it's another part that mislead people. I agree she was wrong, it's just not what I was trying to say. I said the same thing than you about she's really wrong if she can't bring the needed dps if there were all players of her skill level. And I wrote also I'm for people to be able to express to others they are below what is needed and they have to do better. I remember in Bahamut my leader told me I was having in the end not enough dps because I was cast cancelling too many spells to dodge mechanic, and I said, ok, that I didn't realize it was ending to be too low, so I focused for improvement and did better and it went well. As I said it's stupid to feel offended because people tell you in a normal way you're not good enough for the content and you need improvement.
You said we part away when I told you I won't get rid of a friend who is not good enough, but I will tell them they have to improve and will help them to do so. We have a tank friend we never took in high level content (actually tried once to show him why), and it was a friend who said that, in the end it was ok he won't do HL content because he didn't want to improve for it, that it wasn't a fun game anymore if he had to do all what we adviced him. We all accepted and he didn't came in HL content. But we just all talked normally, and the other one expressed he will stay casual and leave HL content so it was ok for everyone. So yea, that person left because it was impossible to clear with that person (who is an irl friend). If it was possible to clear while he was doing his tank role with no problem, we wouldn't even care.

That probably means you have an issue with properly presenting your stance, not that other people can’t read.

I didn't expect what I said would have been interpreted badly.
When I said "good enough" people heard "bad players not willing to improving" when I actually meant "good enough". What can I do?
When I never expressed something against parsers, and called the harrassers "perfectionnist" to harrass someone "good enough", people thought I was against parsers and that I'm talking about the mindset of players with parsers overall. What can I do?
When I expressed "You should deal with the idea overall random people suck, so avoid playing with them and get a static", people think I said "people suck, so deal with it and it's ok". What can I do?
When I said "a DRG above the average (so playing good) is playing with (all made up for the exemple) gods", people hear "the DRG is carried (when if all players were of his level they would have succeed the content hands down)". What can I do?
When I write someone "attack with an argument", he thinks I mean "I feel attacked, I'm offended" when I just mean he "showed opposition with an argument".
With all that being wrongly interpreted, it's starts being frustrating (btw, KaivaC, I never called anyone hypocritical but was the one called to be hypocritical, it's maybe a detail, but I prefer to say it).

If you are sitting at 4k dps in o2s without death, something is terrible wrong. However doing 4.7k ish is completely fine and thats completely fine with most

Yea I talk about that guy from the start while people thought my "good enough" was the one with 4k. It just escalated quickly.


I just hope it makes some things more clear in order to calm things overall when I believe we agree in a gerenal way.

[KaivaC]

snip

No...however, you were taking the stance of, if my DPS is good enough to clear, then why should I need to work at improving that DPS (be a god player, in your words)?

[akaneakki]

I just hope it makes some things more clear in order to calm things overall when I believe we agree in a gerenal way.

Dont worry, I know your point, I was just going to simply make a point towards others in here as well, I know we both agree on most of the things. When I see a DPS does 4k in a 01s something is terrible wrong. To many people doesn't understand even if you can beat something, just because other dps carry the weight of your own dps loss, doesn't mean you shouldn't improve, which a lot of people in here say (not saying you did but others have), that they don't need to improve just because the beat a fight.