Open world PvP Zone

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I kept my mouth shut on it earlier, but the fundamental flaw in the reasoning mentioned prior is that no one going into a PvP ANYTHING considers themselves "prey". That very idea is weak and unhelpful in the sense of wanting to compete or simply fight against other players. Sure, some people might be looking for easy targets, and while that's their preference, it's pathetic. Most PvPers however, simply enjoy the challenge of competition, and when there's no challenge, there's no enjoyment. Just look at all the dry ass "expert" content people are so enthusiastic about right now, right?

That said, please stop painting this broad narrative of "everyone just wants to gank you there". If I know you and we're not actively competing, I'd be just as likely to stop and talk as I would defend myself viciously if you attacked. Of course, I can only speak for myself, but I'm sure PvPers who want open world anything aren't just looking for easy targets. We've got plenty of PvE stuff for that.

[Kisagami]

That said, please stop painting this broad narrative of "everyone just wants to gank you there". If I know you and we're not actively competing, I'd be just as likely to stop and talk as I would defend myself viciously if you attacked. Of course, I can only speak for myself, but I'm sure PvPers who want open world anything aren't just looking for easy targets. We've got plenty of PvE stuff for that.

This isn’t a “broad narrative.” I’ve been playing different types of MMOs majority of my life. As early as Runescape, of which I was about 11 at the time, I’ve experienced people going out into PVP areas because they needed something from that area, such as the only F2P farming area for rune and adamant ore was in “the Wilderness.” PVPers would farm those areas for easy prey.

I knew people who bragged, happily, about camping in front of dungeons in Archeage and BDO for the easy kills. People would be standing outside the dungeon looking for a group and would be killed by large guilds of players who weren’t looking for a challenge, it was all gang mentality, “get gud.” You were required to go out as prey to get to your dungeons, your materials for crafting, and even questing.

Don’t discredit my years of experience in MMOs as broad speculation and fear mongering. I experienced it in every game that supports Open World PVP. Hell, even WOW players brag about killing new players “just for fun.”

“We are trolls, online trolls, big black hearts instead of souls. Preying on the weak and dumb, just for fun.” It exists. And I joined this game because it doesn’t have that.

[Squintina]

Don’t discredit my years of experience in MMOs as broad speculation and fear mongering. I experienced it in every game that supports Open World PVP. Hell, even WOW players brag about killing new players “just for fun.”

If you read all the suggestions in this thread, most (if not all) of the people who want "open world" pvp either want a PVP-specific map, or an opt-in flag for regular maps. Thus no one would be ganked, like in those other MMO's, because by default all new players would have the pvp flag turned off and couldn't be attacked.

There is 0 chance the dev team would ever bring about the gankable version of PVP into this game even if they did Open World, it goes against their very core of what they want FF14 to be, nor do I see many people here asking for such a feature.

I very much hated being ganked in WoW (on a PVE server! Stupid PVE maps that gave quests whose follow ups went into PVP areas) and would never support it either, but I think the compromised suggestions offered by the PVP community have some merit.

[Wintersandman]

This isn’t a “broad narrative.”

Actually it is a broad narrative as your concern has been addressed many times and you keep bringing it up when no one is asking for what you are fear mongering about. I grew up on a PvP server in WoW and had all those same things that happened to me. I also grew up in FFXI where there wasn't PvP threats (unless toggled) but open world threats. Goblin trains and Crawler trains were a reality. Honestly the PvE threats in FFXI were more annoying than PvP threats in WoW, as you even had less control and the punishment was even less severe.

You also had a choice in WoW, they had RP and PvE servers. So if you ended up getting ganked in WoW, I feel no sympathy for you as you could go that whole game without a PvP confrontation simply by choosing a server responsibly.

[Zojha]

You also had a choice in WoW, they had RP and PvE servers.

You could still get flagged PvP by accident if you buffed, healed or resurrected a player that had the tag on (AoE heals included). Then there were also Open World areas that automatically flagged you if you entered them (I think even flying over them by accident counted, but I'm not sure anymore) and then of course you regularly had PvP flagged people running into your mobs, onto your corpses (For those not in the know: You had to click on a corpse to loot it) and around you in order to try and get you PvP flagged via accidental misclick or AoE. Especially high level Tauren with their Kodos loved that strategy, since they had the most coverage.
Once flagged, you had to wait 5 minutes for the flag to vanish, which was the most annoying bit of it all. So even if you killed the dude, sticking around just made you prone to a gank while you're busy with another mob, you had to walk away and wait before continuing your farm.

It was a royal pain to avoid PvP on PvE servers at times. If you had a guild, it was usually easier to just kill the troublemakers and spawncamp them until they got bored and learned their lesson.

[Wintersandman]

You could still get flagged PvP by accident if you buffed, healed or resurrected a player that had the tag on (AoE heals included). Then there were also Open World areas that automatically flagged you if you entered them (I think even flying over them by accident counted, but I'm not sure anymore) and then of course you regularly had PvP flagged people running into your mobs, onto your corpses (For those not in the know: You had to click on a corpse to loot it) and around you in order to try and get you PvP flagged via accidental misclick or AoE.

AoE heals only affected party members. You could see if someone was flagged so it was a choice to buff, heal, or res them. Up through WotLK the only zone with PvP was Wintergrasp which was released during WotLK and you didn't need to go there for any PvE objectives. If you are misclicking I have no sympathy for you as you should know what you are targeting. In regards to looting you could turn on Auto-Loot and the corpse looting would be alleviated. Is it cumbersome yes but there were ways around it if it bugged people that much.

[Zojha]

Is it cumbersome yes [...]

That's the point I was making. As Frost Mage, you had to purposely forego you natural defensive tool, Frost Nova, to not get tagged. Priests similarly had to be careful with Psychic Scream in their daily farm activities. Combat rogues had to make sure not to use Blade Flurry etc etc. Panning your camera to find a good angle the guy wasn't blocking was also a common necessity. AoE farming in a group was cumbersome, as you easily triggered a tagging chain reaction. And if he wanted to, a Rogue could simply jump into the last tick of your ground AoE without you realizing he's even there and get you tagged that way. You had to go out of your way to avoid PvP even on a PvE realm is the point.

Of course that bugged people that much. Not having to go out of your way and doing cumbersome workarounds to avoid it was the reason people picked a PvE realm in the first place after all. That's what PvP realms were for - Those also had cumbersome workarounds to avoid PvP, playing Rogue being one of them.

And that holds a valuable lesson to learn from when making any "optional" PvP zone or tagging system - Don't allow interaction between tagged and non-tagged people. AoEs of non-tagged people should simply ignore tagged people, single target abilities and autoattacks trigger a warning message along the lines of:"You need to turn on the flag to do that".

[Wintersandman]

And that holds a valuable lesson to learn from when making any "optional" PvP zone or tagging system - Don't allow interaction between tagged and non-tagged people. AoEs of non-tagged people should simply ignore tagged people, single target abilities and autoattacks trigger a warning message along the lines of:"You need to turn on the flag to do that".

FFXIV already has this in place. You can't attack Leve Quest targets so they already have the logic.

Panning your camera to find a good angle the guy wasn't blocking was also a common necessity. .

Tab targeting... I am sure you have used it before.

As Frost Mage, you had to purposely forego you natural defensive tool, Frost Nova, to not get tagged. Priests similarly had to be careful with Psychic Scream in their daily farm activities. Combat rogues had to make sure not to use Blade Flurry etc etc.

I am sorry but having played both classes you didn't *NEED* those tools and wouldn't hinder you much. I played Priest, Mage, and Rogue and I never had an issue with accidentally getting flagged.

AoE farming in a group was cumbersome, as you easily triggered a tagging chain reaction.

Hopefully if you were in a group you could take out one straggler jumping in the fray.