Open world PvP Zone

[RiyahArp]

I feel though that a lot of the problems with pvp is that the devs aren't cynical enough. You have to assume players will try to cheat and break the system, and design for that. You can't design expecting players will play a specific way or will always act with decent motivation. SE kind of doesn't get this, and tends to have to scramble after to catch up. Especially with open world pvp, which has a long history of players being ridiculous and utter jerks in proportion to the power they get.

Like you have to assume people will gank in groups, so you cannot keep the current zone structure we have, because people will nail others as they zone in. Otherwise you keep the zone structure, and all it takes is a tiny amount of ppl to make the zone a failure. You have to think of your mechanic as used by someone who only cares about winning in the easiest way possible, which is a cynical outlook. Otherwise you are forced to think of it later.

[Kisagami]

You have to think of your mechanic as used by someone who only cares about winning in the easiest way possible, which is a cynical outlook. Otherwise you are forced to think of it later.

This! I’m sorry Thirdchild, but no matter what the game just wasn’t built for PVP like this and its an uphill battle to make this zone work without having the failures of other open PVP world games. And as you’ve seen, every time Square Enix makes huge changes such as what this entails, something goes wrong or a whole community feels slighted. They rarely get it exactly right.

People aren’t honorable like you, Thirdchild, if I take what you’re saying as truth about your own character. But so far, the characters of others and the main bulk of the community I know, if there’s an easy way to do it... they’ll do it.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I feel though that a lot of the problems with pvp is that the devs aren't cynical enough. You have to assume players will try to cheat and break the system, and design for that. You can't design expecting players will play a specific way or will always act with decent motivation. SE kind of doesn't get this, and tends to have to scramble after to catch up. Especially with open world pvp, which has a long history of players being ridiculous and utter jerks in proportion to the power they get.

I'd say they're more inconsistent about it. No parsers because of possible reverse engineering, but they also thought lifting GC restrictions would cause "moral degradation", when all it really did was improve queues overnight. They can see hunts and gathering would be impacted by open world PvP, but couldn't see the issues restricting chat in the Feast would cause rather than solve.

I agree a certain degree of foresight to possible negatives is due, but SE really seems inconsistent in their ability to do so, and more often than not with PvP.

[Wintersandman]

SE really seems inconsistent in their ability to do so, and more often than not with PvE.

I would honestly say that PvE is the biggest thing they lack foresight on. Look at the current state of DRK, BLM, and MNK. I will agree they messed up PvP massively but if we look outside to PvE they are scrambling to fix a lot more which is probably why PvP is sidelined. The biggest PvP event to ever take place in FFXIV is 4.1 housing. The chafing still hasn't subsided. SE should do more polls and be more open about communication. Allow more people to Beta test it and get feedback.

[RiyahArp]

I would honestly say that PvE is the biggest thing they lack foresight on. Look at the current state of DRK, BLM, and MNK. I will agree they messed up PvP massively but if we look outside to PvE they are scrambling to fix a lot more which is probably why PvP is sidelined. The biggest PvP event to ever take place in FFXIV is 4.1 housing. The chafing still hasn't subsided. SE should do more polls and be more open about communication. Allow more people to Beta test it and get feedback.

mmm, the problem with those jobs is they balanced too well, and small differences suddenly become huge ones to players. plus endgame is just junk, savage raids were one of the worst decisions in any MMO over traditional raid-style gameplay. Diadem had its issues, but the emergency mission style gameplay is a better fit for this game than savage.

[Wintersandman]

mmm, the problem with those jobs is they balanced too well, and small differences suddenly become huge ones to players. plus endgame is just junk, savage raids were one of the worst decisions in any MMO over traditional raid-style gameplay. Diadem had its issues, but the emergency mission style gameplay is a better fit for this game than savage.

Housing
Hunts
Diadem 1.0 and 2.0
Midas
Relic Fates (To this day some aren't fixed)
ARR High Level Relic Dungeon drops....................................

The laundry list is long. I am just stating that SE has a tendency to not have the foresight at all because they selectively listen to their players and truly don't provide we are looking at X. It would honestly be worthwhile for SE to do Polls and not just on the forums. Because looking at the posts from 3.0 to 4.0 there is confusion that Shatter is 4.0 which brought them to PvP. But as some of us know Shatter has been around for even longer.

Could you imagine if they open up a test server for Open World PvP and then listened to players feedback and were honest if they said "We can't code it to do that or allow that or stop that?". That alone would alleviate the fear mongering that is plaguing this thread and potentially build hype for something that could be amazing.

Also imagine if you were fresh to the game and you saw groups of level 70's duking it out in Middle La Noscea. You can't participate yet because you are too low and can't participate. The PvP'ers can't attack you because the coding prohibits it. Wouldn't seeing that alone build excitement?

[RiyahArp]

Kis, you can still plan for it. I mean, part of the fun of open world stuff is that it is lawless and unfair, in a sense. You just have to plan for people being that way, rather than people behaving. So you do things like have too many home points to camp, or have plenty of save zones, and stuff. I said this more that I think you just have to plan open world stuff assuming people are going to try than break it as much if not more than follow it. I don't mean to say its impossible, just you can't go in optimistic.

Like Rival Wings...you had to know players would use healers much more in a defensive style map and stack them.

Its kind of rough though because some of us kind of had hard experiences with open world stuff before. You get a sense of how people can be, the good and the bad.

[Kisagami]

Unless it is completely instanced off like Guild Wars 2’s PVP, its own area that doesn’t interfere with the story, a lot of people I know aren’t going to be for it. (POV of a 92 member linkshell). I’ve been taking a break from FF14, and I actually tried their World Versus World today. I love the team capture the fort stuff, and I actually did pretty decent! Hit level 2 on my world versus world PVP exp bar. Tera and GW2, in my opinion, have gotten PVP right. I quite enjoyed myself. Which is rare. (I don’t typically knock something already existing in a game without trying it myself and seeing whether someone’s gonna scream my head off for making a mistake...) People actually helped me a lot. It was good fun to be part of the pack. Instantly accepted even though I was a beginner. But the teams are also way bigger, so one or two making a mistake isn’t as damaging.

Its pretty open, and huge battles with teams are marked on the map with an X so you know where to go to help your team. I’d love this kind of system there.

Forts, keeps, villages to defend, plenty of areas to PVP and strategize. I did quite a bit of assisting, which is what I usually do in shatter unless my friends and I want to stealth in and attempt to steal a base.

Really think a method like this would be good. But they have way better servers, its one big mega server, and the data centers are connected. I can transfer over to a friend’s server anytime to play with them.

[RiyahArp]

Eh..the thing about the JP is that they tend to use a face-saving reason rather than directly say no a lot. The GC restriction was probably more due to how hard it would be to code more than moral degradation, but you can't actually say "This is too hard to code," because its too direct. The chat in feast was them overreacting to the real problems at the time, matchmaking failures and healer roles, so they had to bandaid it to prevent even more loss. I think they are inconsistent, but its because they tend not to test or think about content enough; there's a really weird disconnect between devs and players in terms of focus. Like bard instruments and gpose over actual content.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Having looked back on the idea I had for the devastated West Shroud as a PvP zone as seen here, the idea's not half bad.

IF the devs would ever consider a PvP zone (A ZONE, a clearly defined, "must-exit-one-area-to-enter-another" zone, with in your face notification of entering a PvP enabled area), I'd hope they'd consider this.