Open world PvP Zone

[Gravton]

Yes I have played on pvp servers. I enjoy pvp, when on a pvp server....I pvp, pve isn't my focus. Lots of titles still embrace pvp areas, Guild Wars 2 and Star Wars from the mmo genre. Yeah they are failed games, but pvp had very little to do with that. (In fact I would argue that pvp were their only redeeming qualities) Same with The Division and that zombie survival game. I don't see the harm in having a pvp zone, I mean no one uses Diadem anymore.

[Demielle_Tournes]

I think you may have misunderstood my post. PvP servers would be PvP servers. Why would anyone who's not interested in PvP join them? Same with a PvP zone. That's why it is called a PvP zone.

Thats because world PVP just looks like a good idea. We imagine people rallying, on an all out war full of coolness, leadership and strategy. Balanced factions, people helping each other.
That doesn't exist. Theres no glory. Just shameless ganking and uninterested people. Everyone will flock to the strongest faction, since in FFXIV theres absolutely no sense of unity in the existing factions.
I got into Wpvp thinking it would be fun and awesome, the only thing i got was frustation and having to stop questing for almost a day because the opposing faction controlled the area (and that happened A LOT).

[Wintersandman]

Thats because world PVP just looks like a good idea. We imagine people rallying, on an all out war full of coolness, leadership and strategy. Balanced factions, people helping each other.
That doesn't exist. Theres no glory. Just shameless ganking and uninterested people. Everyone will flock to the strongest faction, since in FFXIV theres absolutely no sense of unity in the existing factions.
I got into Wpvp thinking it would be fun and awesome, the only thing i got was frustation and having to stop questing for almost a day because the opposing faction controlled the area (and that happened A LOT).

Factions change all the time though in FFXIV. You can watch Frontlines shift all the time as people don't always want to be on the strongest faction. Sometimes it is nice to be on the underdog and upset the 'strongest'. I have been part of a 8 man group fighting off another 24 man group in shatter at their base. People would get high/fever die and get rezed back up. A coordinated team is much more effective than the illusion of being the 'strongest'. I know this because I coordinate teams all the time.

Also again no one is saying to put questing in the zone.

[RiyahArp]

Factions change all the time though in FFXIV. You can watch Frontlines shift all the time. Also again no one is saying to put questing in the zone.

This month's frontline standings on primal, sorted by victory rate: the top 100 are all maelstrom. If you looked at the top 100 by GC, the lowest ranked mael is at 78% win rate, the lowest flame is at 19%. Aion only had two factions, and it got so bad that the "evil" race had barely any victories on 90% of the servers, and all clustered together on one or two of them. It can get pretty bad if there is any advantage to winning.

And yeah, they need to have some reason to even be in the zone and force pvp. Traditionally its leveling or resource gathering. When you don't have this, like in EVE, you get people endlessly roaming looking for another group to fight, like with the militias.

[Wintersandman]

This month's frontline standings on primal, sorted by victory rate: the top 100 are all maelstrom.

But it was worse months before. I am a flame and fully aware of how much Mael was winning. But during ARR Flames was the dominant one. For awhile it was Adders. It is always in flux as some of the players who help the teams dominate don't want to associate with the Sheep. It is much more fun being a Flame upsetting mael than it is being a mael and always winning. I was rank 34 on my server with a 50% win rate as a Flame. Also landing on Mael even with freelancer is almost virtually impossible. It soooo rarely happens.

By the way, i barely saw a single match of frontlines with people that are not maelstrom even caring about winning.

What is winning? The team winning? Winning can be your personal objective or team objective. I have gone into matches with the shear focus of getting Battle Fever on AST. I know people who go in with the shear focus on killing people. I have also seen those people win the match as it disorients the other teams.

Like I said previously there are other people who switch factions to get away from the sheep.

[Demielle_Tournes]

Factions change all the time though in FFXIV.
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Also again no one is saying to put questing in the zone.

Thats exactly the problem. You are losing? Just change to the winning faction.
And i was talking about pvp server, not just a zone. Still i can't see the zones working, looks like a terrible frontline mode with more chances of being broken and having an overpowered faction. Can't picture something like this working for the FFXIV playerbase.
By the way, i barely saw a single match of frontlines with people that are not maelstrom even caring about winning.

[Gravton]

Switching factions is harder to do now anyway. Well "harder". With squadrons tied to your faction I think people are going to be less willing to swap. The longer they work on their squads the less likely they are to abandon that progress. Overlooking, of course, completionists.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

And that's what was proposed before, yet people came thundering in basically saying that was too much and PvP shouldn't even be in the game. Need I remind you that they asked for a zone. An area with a clearly defined entry/exit point, and with notification of entering said area, of course. They said no PvE objectives or anything that would otherwise require someone uninterested in PvP to ever even have to look in its direction. They even suggested repurposing an area that's otherwise unused or dead now, but you'd think they asked for a complete overhaul of the game to be a PvP one with the way people have reacted.

You say it should stay separate, and people are asking for separate, but the truth is, many just hate the idea so much that they're refusing to an uneven compromise in their favor.

[Alien_Gamer]

They said no PvE objectives

I haven't read every post so I may have missed it, but the OP was definitely asking for PvE elements in the PvP zone. Everything he described was essentially a PvE map that you could PvP in. Titling this thread "Open world PvP" also reinforces that desire. If they later clarified what they wanted beyond that then its understandable if many posters missed it. Many people like this game because its not primarily a PvP game so when people ask for open world PvP it does ruffle some feathers.

Whether or not PvP belongs in the game is a silly discussion to get into in my opinion; the devs wanted to make it so they did and its not going anywhere. I don't like to PvP, so I don't go to the Wolves Den and I tend to ignore that aspect of the game, others do like it and participate daily and good for them. I don't lose out on anything by this game having more options for people to enjoy it.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I don't lose out on anything by this game having more options for people to enjoy it.

THIS is the most true, and valid statement in this entire thread.

So long as neither side is forced to include content tailored for the other, coexistence in the game is entirely possible. There is no "too much focus on" or "wasted resources when they could be doing other things". Players ought to be trying to bridge the gaps rather than building up walls.