This is why this game should'nt get a parse

[Baalfrog]

Given that it shows people data without consent I'd but a lot of blame on the tool as it far to easy to use to abuse people.

Its not like you can't go there and make it all private if you don't want people to see it.... Also fairly certain if anyone ever uploads a parse, its so they can see their own performance, be it for further analysis or to see how it compares on ladders, not because "OOOH that dude was so bad, I'm going to upload!"

[jameseoakes]

Its not like you can't go there and make it all private if you don't want people to see it.... Also fairly certain if anyone ever uploads a parse, its so they can see their own performance, be it for further analysis or to see how it compares on ladders, not because "OOOH that dude was so bad, I'm going to upload!"

Well I've got parse data on there despite not having access to a parser. It should be set to hidden by default as you have to know it exists to be able to do that. FFlogs should not be treated as something that is required in end game.

[PArcher]

Well I've got parse data on there despite not having access to a parser. It should be set to hidden by default as you have to know it exists to be able to do that. FFlogs should not be treated as something that is required in end game.

I'll be completely honest here; most people who do not want data on them almost always have something to hide. Here, its usually really poor play because they don't want to put the effort in to learning how to play their job properly and want to get carried (includes tanks who don't swap into DPS stance or never use cooldowns and 0 DPS healers). In the endgame, you are expected to know your job and actually try to do well, FFLogs is one easy tool to use to check that.

Good farm groups will look someone up on FFLogs as they join parties to see what kind of player they're getting; if they see only grey logs (or no logs at all) they know they got someone hoping for a carry, which isn't something these groups want (and if its someone who hasn't cleared...well, they're really hoping for a carry in a farm party and deserve the kick and blacklist they're getting).

[Kakiko]

*snip*

That's a super wide brush you're using.

[HyoMinPark]

That's a super wide brush you're using.

How so, though? Why hide your logs if you have nothing to hide?

There's more to toxic than just parsing someone...

This. Never forget when I first started playing back in 3.1 (so the darks days of BRD), and people kept telling me that I was trash for playing a trash job like BRD. That I should stop playing BRD because it was a horrible job and weak and I was trash for just loving it, cast bars and all.

Nothing about parsers or parsing in those comments. But they are just as toxic.

[StarRosie]

How so, though? Why hide your logs if you have nothing to hide?

Not answering for Kakiko but to give a little idea.

Privacy for one, yes I know MMO and all that but some level of privacy is allowed even in MMOs. I mean lodestone has options to hide your info or set it to friends only so why can't I with logs? But yeah, I enjoy having a mild bit of privacy and the ability to show this info to people I trust rather than leave it for any random Joe or Jill schmoe to search up. To be honest, if FFlogs had logs set to private by default rather than its current "You have to log into our site, link your character and claim it in order to set to private." system, I'd be a lot less...skeeved out by the whole thing but that is overall a different discussion.

Secondly, while I personally don't have much to hide, I don't like the idea of someone just being able to search up my character and attempt a "GOTCHA! YOU SUCK!" post or something. (No, not saying that's all people do with logs or anything just...it’s an example I guess?). But yeah, the whole "Someone being able to look up your character and see every raid, trial, and bit of content you've done." concept really creeps me out and I don't like that, so I hide that stuff to keep some form of privacy. If I want to discuss my overall performance or my track record with people, I want it to be with people I trust and know aren't going to be asses or condescending about it. (I know, I repeat myself a lot but it helps get the points across.)

Thirdly, cause it calms my anxiety down. I am a frickin' mess of anxiety, my mind will take tiny things and run them through every possible scenario it can till it finds the most frightening, crippling outcome and then constantly tell me "This is gonna happen if you join that PF. HEHEHEHEHE!" so having my logs and stuff set to private to have a thing to tell my mind "No it won't cause this is all set to private so they can't just look me up and do that." helps calm me down. Also if I'm kicked cause I won't share this stuff, then those aren't the types of players I wanna hang out with.

Fourth, because I can. Just because logs or the like are recorded by other people and posted without my consent or knowledge, does not mean it is suddenly everyone's right to scrutinize, critique, point out, or overall judge my entire career as a player. They are still MY LOGS and if I wanna hide them, then that is my right. This doesn't automatically make me a bad player it just means I'm exercising my right as a person, to a bit of privacy.

People hiding their logs doesn't instantly equate to bad/lazy/poor/shitty player who wants to be carried. Some people may have legitimate reasons to hide their logs or hide their info. So yeah, if you are saying "If you hide your logs, you are probably a bad player." Then yes, you are painting with a SUPER WIDE BRUSH!

I know someone is gonna come out and basically do a "You're totally wrong, lol." counter argument post and tell me how I'm stupid or something for wanting a little privacy and overall, I don't care. I was merely offering a few examples from my point of view for why someone might hide their logs and such and if you don't agree with them, that is fine but I'm not really gonna budge from this. I enjoy privacy and control over my own data and information. If that makes me a 'bad player', then ok, I'm fine with being a 'bad player'.

Anyways, have a lovely day and thank you for reading.

[Kakiko]

How so, though? Why hide your logs if you have nothing to hide?

It was more in response to this:

Good farm groups will look someone up on FFLogs as they join parties to see what kind of player they're getting; if they see only grey logs (or no logs at all) they know they got someone hoping for a carry, which isn't something these groups want (and if its someone who hasn't cleared...well, they're really hoping for a carry in a farm party and deserve the kick and blacklist they're getting).

Than the first, although in regards to the first:

Not everyone who wants to set their logs to private does so because they have something to hide. I absolutely detest that excuse for any sort of discussion like this ("oh well, if you've nothing to hide then you don't have to worry"). As I mentioned in my earlier post, situations can arise where someone runs to the forums or to Reddit to remark about how this player or that player, even without saying names, was doing crap damage. Look at how this very thread started as proof. But, you only get one side of the story. Maybe that player people complain about thought they were doing the best they could? There's a lot of room for "what ifs" and assumptions when logs are made public and someone isn't performing as well as you think they should. That's what I don't care for. I know there have been times when my own numbers dipped because I was experiencing lag, and lately I think my keyboard needs to be replaced as my tab-target isn't working properly sometimes. So, if someone were to run off to to the forums or Reddit to make a thread about how the DPS in that instance was crap and they had to carry the little DPS, even if they didn't say my name - it's still there in the log with no explanation of why my numbers were terrible or why maybe my rotation was shoddy. It's not that I have something to HIDE, it's just that you're only ever going to get one side of the story.

My comment though was more in regards to the second part. Up until a few days ago, I didn't have FFlogs and as of right now, anything I upload isn't showing as there being any fight there anyway (because I can't figure out how to make it work properly, despite watching videos and reading different sites). So for all intents and purposes, it looks like I have nothing. So, if I join something even if it's something I am fairly confident in, by the quoted segment's logic, the group is going to "know" they got someone who wants a carry just because they can't see any of my logs. What about people who didn't know about FFLogs (like.. me.. up until like a week ago)? Or people who can't figure out how to make them work? There are also people out there who don't care about logs at all, and so haven't ever downloaded anything or looked into it because to them it's not a priority and they don't want to spend their time on it. Not everyone who doesn't have them are looking for a carry. Not everyone going into a farm group without a prior clear is looking for a carry (although it's kind of dumb to go into a farm if you're not at least somewhat aware of the mechanics). Or, again, they see my name in logs where I was having an off day, or any other issue, and decide I "deserve" a blacklist (according to the quoted post's logic).

The use of definites is what makes it a wide brush. Yes, maybe some people without logs hope for a carry. Maybe some people without a clear are hoping for a carry. But that doesn't include everyone and it just rubbed me the wrong way.

[PArcher]

SNIP

Problem is, its an absolutely tiny minority that can clear current content fine but has nothing on FFLogs. I wait a few hours after running anything now because its almost a guarantee that someone else is uploading the runs

I've PFed farm parties a lot (though not as much recently because the quality of players right now is abysmal. Most good players are on break til 4.2 or have everything they want) and yeah, people with no logs are almost always dragging the party down. Its better to just boot them and get someone who has proof they can farm than take the chance and spend time wiping (or worse, going in and seeing the newbie bonus pop up).

[Lazaruz]

Yes, maybe some people without logs hope for a carry. Maybe some people without a clear are hoping for a carry. But that doesn't include everyone and it just rubbed me the wrong way.

You know.... I couldnt agree more with this.

Much like how not everyone who parses is a toxic kid who will rage at you over your numbers, not everyone who hides their logs are doing it just because there's something to hide or because they "want a carry"

I've seen the argument pop up plenty where people want to be able to judge their own performance, and their performance alone via parsing software and guess what, I'm not denying anyone that ability by hiding my logs. What I am doing is denying them the ability to make a erroneous assumption about my ability to play, just because of one bad log that got uploaded without my concent, or a good one that didnt get uploaded.

Regardless, I have no interest in the endgame level content, where most people agree that a parse is necessary. So if anyone resent me because you dont have "proof" that I'm playing at the level you want, go ahead. I'll let my actions do the talking instead of just raw data without context.

*Drops mic, leaves thread, since I already got bopped once for stepping on someone's nerve*

[Raikki]

they see my name in logs where I was having an off day

Your logs when you're having an "off day" are completely relevant if someone is gauging what kind of a risk they're taking when you join their party. If they're an oddity they'll be drowned out by good logs anyway. I have numerous terrible runs of mine uploaded. Cherry-picking only runs that reflect well on you is a dishonest accounting of your performance.

I get that you want parties that can clear and where everyone pulls their weight. I just take issue with the generalization that because someone doesn't have FFLogs means that person is looking for a carry. It's not true 100% of the time. I don't know, I guess it's just different expectations from the game. To me, it sounds extremely elitist that someone has to have a third party item as "proof" or they "deserve" a blacklist.

Perhaps, but it's true most of the time. It's a reliable enough warning sign that not making use of it, at least in parties where efficiency is implied or guaranteed, is irresponsible as a PF host. People will often wait long periods of time for a party to fill up only to have it quickly disbanded if the group turns out to be unable to iron out its problems and accomplish its stated objectives. If it is within your power to provide evidence of your capabilities, then asking for it is merely asking you for the courtesy of going slightly out of your way to make people feel more confident about investing their time and effort together with you.