Would you like an in-game parser?

[RiyahArp]

See what you wrote there? You abondon shinryu NM since people couldn't handle it..

..it was the first week of a new expansion, with people at the lowest possible ilvl to do it. It happens. Some people get tired of trying something for 40 minutes. Has nothing to do with overall skill, any more than someone abandoning an ex trial does. Once that week passed, people got used to it better.

The following months, very few if no abandons. It's pretty much assumed that new content has a grace period where we actually need to learn it.

If people do 'fine' in casual content, then they shouldn't have any issues being monitored by a parser, no?

If you are getting the dungeon done in 15-17 minutes, I'd ask why you need to monitor them. You need to parse in order to meet dps targets for a run. Most casual content doesn't have that at all.

As fot the "no evidence" replies, come on. How many times:

1. have you done a dungeon that takes five-ten more minutes over the average time?
2. Wiped multiple times in a hard mode trial
3. vote abandoned a 24 man run

in your daily play? If everyone is so bad, this should be pretty common, right?

[HoodRat]

As fot the "no evidence" replies, come on. How many times:

1. have you done a dungeon that takes five-ten more minutes over the average time?

Most times I run a dungeon without a premade, the time is increased by at least 50% than if I had gone with a premade.

2. Wiped multiple times in a hard mode trial

About half the time I run trial roulette without a premade, we wipe at least once. If it's Ramuh hm, I go in expecting more than one wipe.

3. vote abandoned a 24 man run

Again, this happens about half the time I run it without a premade.

I won’t say that parser harassment doesn’t occur; I’m sure it does even though I have only seen one instance of it in my two years of playing this game.

I've seen it multiple times. Although I don't condone harassment, the victim did bring it upon themselves in each of these cases.

[RiyahArp]

Oh come on, you're exaggerating to heck. I'm on the same data center as you and I do my runs mostly solo, and I never see this, period. And i probably do more overall than you, I do trials for practice and fun, and often do a lot of rab too. I queue up with "join in progress as well," so i often get the bad runs, and I literally go in and swap to a healer or tank if they need it. Players are not that bad overall, even if they struggle with something. The majority of my runs go easy, with tanks pulling as much as they can, and with virtually no abandons or serious drama. If i see a wipe in rab, there's only one the whole run. When I come in on a run that's struggling we complete it the next pull. \ And i don't hear complaints in general in my fcs or my link.

I'm tired of this playerbase exaggerating and forgetting things to perpetuate myths. If the problem really is "players aren't good enough to do raids" then say that and argue from that. Then you'd need to seriously discuss the raid situation in game, whether or not it should define the endgame experience, and whether or not the cost of making people better for it is worth the harassment and downsides parser culture will bring. But no one ever seems to want to be honest about things, and we always talk around the main issues and frame it as "oh, people are bad," or "oh, raiders just stink."

[HyoMinPark]

Oh come on, you're exaggerating to heck. I'm on the same data center as you and I do my runs mostly solo, and I never see this, period. And i probably do more overall than you

If you’re responding to Bourne, Cactuar is in Aether data center; Lamia is in Primal. So no, not same data center.

I'm tired of this playerbase exaggerating and forgetting things to perpetuate myths.

A lot of your posts have contained their own exaggerations.

whether or not the cost of making people better for it is worth the harassment and downsides parser culture will bring.

Do you have any proof that is going to happen? Because unless you’re psychic, you cannot see the future, and cannot definitively say that harassment will increase or decrease.

[RiyahArp]

I'm responding to the lala from Bryn, who is on my data center. And I'm not the one claiming all players are so horrible that outside of a premade it takes 50% more time to do a single run. As for proof, nothing is ever is purely beneficial. People use parsers to improve, but they also use them to kick people and belittle, or to try and make normal content into a big status race (cough, fflogs.) There's always positive and negative to any change, and you have to look at it honestly. POTD was positive in that it let people get exp solo and experiment, negative in that it let people shortcut normal party roles if overused.

if people aren't honest about stuff, we'll get horrible changes in response. We'll get parsers, and everyone will be wondering why the playerbase still isn't good at raids. The real problem won't get answered.

[akaneakki]

Riyah give us proof people get kicked in dungeons doing okay dps. Give us proof of everything you said . While you at it.

[HoodRat]

And I'm not the one claiming all players are so horrible that outside of a premade it takes 50% more time to do a single run.

Don't ask questions if you don't want to hear the answers.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

People use parsers to improve, but they also use them to kick people and belittle, or to try and make normal content into a big status race (cough, fflogs.) There's always positive and negative to any change, and you have to look at it honestly. POTD was positive in that it let people get exp solo and experiment, negative in that it let people shortcut normal party roles if overused..

First and foremost, let's not conflate kicking and belittle. The former can be warranted, especially in harder content if said player isn't performing well. That being said, no one is denying the negatives. We simply disagree they would be any more prevalent than they are now. People willing to harass due to parses will still do so, they'll just avoid mentioning numbers. Anyone whining about parses in a dungeon are, bluntly stated, idiots. Ironically, this is now you exaggerating. Very few people even care about dungeon; many raiders avoid doing them entirely. In over two years, I have never once seen anyone mention parses in dungeons or normal modes. I won't argue it doesn't happen since I can only cite my own experiences but nowhere near to the extent you're insinuating.

Parses aren't a magical fix nor has anyone suggested otherwise. They'll simply be a helpful tool. I'm a far better player now than when I started people I looked up guides and parsed myself. Add a proper difficulty curve and we'll start to see improvements over the long term.

[Sebazy]

Parses aren't a magical fix nor has anyone suggested otherwise. They'll simply be a helpful tool. I'm a far better player now than when I started people I looked up guides and parsed myself. Add a proper difficulty curve and we'll start to see improvements over the long term.

This, the simple in game parser output most people are asking for here isn't going to be anything like as detailed as what you see on logs.

Rather it's an easy to read and understand data point with the goal of sparking a players curiosity about there own performance and hopefully start them on the road to improving where possible. As is, this game simply doesn't provide enough feed back for many DPS jobs to have any idea about how well they are doing or not. I'd argue that 2.x-3.x SMN was almost impossible to optimise to a high standard with how dots are displayed, look at how poorly people thought of them in 2.0 before we had any parser data to work on.

[Reinha]

Add a proper difficulty curve and we'll start to see improvements over the long term.

Right now it goes something like this: leveling content and roulettes, Shinryu nm, Omega nm, Rabanastre, Susano+Lakshmi ex, Omega 1+2 savage, Shinryu ex, Omega 3+4 savage, Coil ultimate. Do you feel like there are steps missing on the difficulty ladder or do you think the ratio of easy and hard content is not properly balanced when progressing through the (end) game?