Would you like an in-game parser?

[Selova]

snip.

Because there is no argument when you are using made up statistics and what-if scenarios. You make sweeping generalizations about those who are monitoring a parser aka everyone that is running one by making baseless claims that they aren't using it as a helpful aide. I shouldn't have to explain why this line of reasoning doesn't work as a debate tactic.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

1. have you done a dungeon that takes five-ten more minutes over the average time?

If I had to ballpark it, between 30-50% of my runs average over 15 minutes because I often get healers who refuse to DPS.

2. Wiped multiple times in a hard mode trial

Admittedly, not too often. It helps they are so easy I don't even need CDs through any busters.

3. vote abandoned a 24 man run

Roughly 1/3 Rabanastres I do has a wipe to Hashmal. Back in Weeping City, people were wiping months after it released. Bit refreshing after Void Ark.

Regardless, perhaps, like Sebazy said, this is an indication dungeons and normal mode are so easy, you can practically bang your head on the keyboard and clear without any trouble. That lack of difficulty has routinely become an issue when these players attempt EX Primals and Savage without having even a basic rotation down. The Skip Soar memes spawned because any competent group should have skipped it unless their combined ilvl was low.

[akaneakki]

..it was the first week of a new expansion, with people at the lowest possible ilvl to do it.

Explain how I killed it with 5 people first week then

[RiyahArp]

Oh come on, you're exaggerating to heck. I'm on the same data center as you and I do my runs mostly solo, and I never see this, period. And i probably do more overall than you, I do trials for practice and fun, and often do a lot of rab too. I queue up with "join in progress as well," so i often get the bad runs, and I literally go in and swap to a healer or tank if they need it. Players are not that bad overall, even if they struggle with something. The majority of my runs go easy, with tanks pulling as much as they can, and with virtually no abandons or serious drama. If i see a wipe in rab, there's only one the whole run. When I come in on a run that's struggling we complete it the next pull. \ And i don't hear complaints in general in my fcs or my link.

I'm tired of this playerbase exaggerating and forgetting things to perpetuate myths. If the problem really is "players aren't good enough to do raids" then say that and argue from that. Then you'd need to seriously discuss the raid situation in game, whether or not it should define the endgame experience, and whether or not the cost of making people better for it is worth the harassment and downsides parser culture will bring. But no one ever seems to want to be honest about things, and we always talk around the main issues and frame it as "oh, people are bad," or "oh, raiders just stink."

[HyoMinPark]

Oh come on, you're exaggerating to heck. I'm on the same data center as you and I do my runs mostly solo, and I never see this, period. And i probably do more overall than you

If you’re responding to Bourne, Cactuar is in Aether data center; Lamia is in Primal. So no, not same data center.

I'm tired of this playerbase exaggerating and forgetting things to perpetuate myths.

A lot of your posts have contained their own exaggerations.

whether or not the cost of making people better for it is worth the harassment and downsides parser culture will bring.

Do you have any proof that is going to happen? Because unless you’re psychic, you cannot see the future, and cannot definitively say that harassment will increase or decrease.

[RiyahArp]

I'm responding to the lala from Bryn, who is on my data center. And I'm not the one claiming all players are so horrible that outside of a premade it takes 50% more time to do a single run. As for proof, nothing is ever is purely beneficial. People use parsers to improve, but they also use them to kick people and belittle, or to try and make normal content into a big status race (cough, fflogs.) There's always positive and negative to any change, and you have to look at it honestly. POTD was positive in that it let people get exp solo and experiment, negative in that it let people shortcut normal party roles if overused.

if people aren't honest about stuff, we'll get horrible changes in response. We'll get parsers, and everyone will be wondering why the playerbase still isn't good at raids. The real problem won't get answered.

[akaneakki]

Riyah give us proof people get kicked in dungeons doing okay dps. Give us proof of everything you said . While you at it.

[Selova]

snip.

Oh look, another post about anecdotal evidence and trying to pass it off as fact to disprove a point, how exciting. You are not everyone. You also do not represent the majority or any significant amount of the player base, your personal experiences are nothing but your own. I'm not sure why this is so hard for some people to grasp. Also, "parser culture" is not a thing, it does not exist. The negative stigma attached to parsers/combat logs is nothing more than highly exaggerated personal experiences that are blown way out of proportion because someone had a bad experience in a pug in another mmo and make baseless assumptions that if FFXIV had it's own parser it would spread like the black plague and infect everyone with nothing but bad experiences 24/7 everywhere, without question. This is getting rather ridiculous.

[HoodRat]

And I'm not the one claiming all players are so horrible that outside of a premade it takes 50% more time to do a single run.

Don't ask questions if you don't want to hear the answers.

[MoroMurasaki]

As fot the "no evidence" replies, come on. How many times:

1. have you done a dungeon that takes five-ten more minutes over the average time?
2. Wiped multiple times in a hard mode trial
3. vote abandoned a 24 man run

in your daily play? If everyone is so bad, this should be pretty common, right?

I think you're missing the point. The skill floor for a dungeon is so low that if you've got 2 decent players you can clear virtually anything, especially if at least one of those players is the healer. That means in any given dungeon run at least one if not two or three players can be seriously underperforming and you'll still clear just fine.

In terms of a HM trial I've abandoned 2 Shin normal runs ever. Every other run I've cleared. As this is widely regarded as the hardest content in Trial Roulette I feel like it's the best measure of 8am trial completion. I have had my cohealer literally do nothing for the whole fight more than once. I know this might seem like bragging but it isn't because I'm the first to admit I'm not very good - I've never even been past O2S. Again, exceedingly low skill floor as you can literally clear the fight with someone not participating.

Even 24 man raids are a joke now. The other night a friend and I had an experience in Rabanastee where our tank was, essentially, a training dummy for the boss. I tanked our Azure Guard on WHM. No disband.

Then you hit the brick wall of Shin EX where I have had multiple people drop group for while I'm explaining mechanics because 'this just seems too complicated"...

... seems like we maybe need a bridge here, huh? Because when you go from fights you can mostly AFK (and rest assured people do) to fights where not paying attention kills you and your party you're gonna have a bad time.

In conclusion - bad players are everywhere. You're playing with them every day. You might not notice without a parser but in an average day of roulettes you're almost guaranteed to see more than one. They slip by because they don't need to get any better to clear the content they're doing then rage when something like the Vualt or RM comes around.