Would you like an in-game parser?

[Oscura]

That's "mean world syndrome," in which media tends to amplify the negative and make it more commonplace

For profit and ratings.

I seriously doubt actual people with personal experiences, more than hundreds if not thousands, have the same goals or mindset as "the media." This is a public forum. Just because you disagree with a lot you see it does not mean it's propaganda. There is no "agenda," here.

[HyoMinPark]

That's "mean world syndrome," in which media tends to amplify the negative and make it more commonplace. I don't see complaining, I don't see mass bad play, and the only time I had to abandon a casual duty was rab and royal menagerie when they were brand new. Dungeons I never see issues, trials i never see issues. Casual play is fine; the real griping tends to be in 8 man ex pugs and up, and people wanting as quick and as easy clears as casual play.

These are personal anecdotes, not facts.

Also, “mean world syndrome” has nothing to do with the Tales of the DF thread—it has nothing to do with a forum discussion—but nice try at using a buzzword to try and further your arguments.

[Sebazy]

I don't see mass bad play

I'm not convinced. Sorry =(

Seriously though, it's really quite startling to just pull up the debuffs tab on a log for Skalla. The fact that you're not noticing these mistakes doesn't mean that they aren't being made, rather it highlights just how non impactful they usually are, but I digress, kind of derailing the topic a bit here <3

[akaneakki]

I don't see mass bad play, and the only time I had to abandon a casual duty was rab and royal menagerie when they were brand new..

See what you wrote there? You abondon shinryu NM since people couldn't handle it. That alone is bad in the first place and also a indicator that Square enix has a minimal gap between story trials and dungeons, then a huge one for people when a decent extreme comes out. Hell people even failed a lot on susano extreme when it was new too, which was pulled 2 times and I got it down. And if you really say you don't see mass bad play then look at your own text again. There are plenty of bad players in this game, far too many for easy content.

[RiyahArp]

See what you wrote there? You abondon shinryu NM since people couldn't handle it..

..it was the first week of a new expansion, with people at the lowest possible ilvl to do it. It happens. Some people get tired of trying something for 40 minutes. Has nothing to do with overall skill, any more than someone abandoning an ex trial does. Once that week passed, people got used to it better.

The following months, very few if no abandons. It's pretty much assumed that new content has a grace period where we actually need to learn it.

If people do 'fine' in casual content, then they shouldn't have any issues being monitored by a parser, no?

If you are getting the dungeon done in 15-17 minutes, I'd ask why you need to monitor them. You need to parse in order to meet dps targets for a run. Most casual content doesn't have that at all.

As fot the "no evidence" replies, come on. How many times:

1. have you done a dungeon that takes five-ten more minutes over the average time?
2. Wiped multiple times in a hard mode trial
3. vote abandoned a 24 man run

in your daily play? If everyone is so bad, this should be pretty common, right?

[HoodRat]

As fot the "no evidence" replies, come on. How many times:

1. have you done a dungeon that takes five-ten more minutes over the average time?

Most times I run a dungeon without a premade, the time is increased by at least 50% than if I had gone with a premade.

2. Wiped multiple times in a hard mode trial

About half the time I run trial roulette without a premade, we wipe at least once. If it's Ramuh hm, I go in expecting more than one wipe.

3. vote abandoned a 24 man run

Again, this happens about half the time I run it without a premade.

I won’t say that parser harassment doesn’t occur; I’m sure it does even though I have only seen one instance of it in my two years of playing this game.

I've seen it multiple times. Although I don't condone harassment, the victim did bring it upon themselves in each of these cases.

[RiyahArp]

Oh come on, you're exaggerating to heck. I'm on the same data center as you and I do my runs mostly solo, and I never see this, period. And i probably do more overall than you, I do trials for practice and fun, and often do a lot of rab too. I queue up with "join in progress as well," so i often get the bad runs, and I literally go in and swap to a healer or tank if they need it. Players are not that bad overall, even if they struggle with something. The majority of my runs go easy, with tanks pulling as much as they can, and with virtually no abandons or serious drama. If i see a wipe in rab, there's only one the whole run. When I come in on a run that's struggling we complete it the next pull. \ And i don't hear complaints in general in my fcs or my link.

I'm tired of this playerbase exaggerating and forgetting things to perpetuate myths. If the problem really is "players aren't good enough to do raids" then say that and argue from that. Then you'd need to seriously discuss the raid situation in game, whether or not it should define the endgame experience, and whether or not the cost of making people better for it is worth the harassment and downsides parser culture will bring. But no one ever seems to want to be honest about things, and we always talk around the main issues and frame it as "oh, people are bad," or "oh, raiders just stink."

[Bourne_Endeavor]

1. have you done a dungeon that takes five-ten more minutes over the average time?

If I had to ballpark it, between 30-50% of my runs average over 15 minutes because I often get healers who refuse to DPS.

2. Wiped multiple times in a hard mode trial

Admittedly, not too often. It helps they are so easy I don't even need CDs through any busters.

3. vote abandoned a 24 man run

Roughly 1/3 Rabanastres I do has a wipe to Hashmal. Back in Weeping City, people were wiping months after it released. Bit refreshing after Void Ark.

Regardless, perhaps, like Sebazy said, this is an indication dungeons and normal mode are so easy, you can practically bang your head on the keyboard and clear without any trouble. That lack of difficulty has routinely become an issue when these players attempt EX Primals and Savage without having even a basic rotation down. The Skip Soar memes spawned because any competent group should have skipped it unless their combined ilvl was low.

[akaneakki]

..it was the first week of a new expansion, with people at the lowest possible ilvl to do it.

Explain how I killed it with 5 people first week then

[MoroMurasaki]

As fot the "no evidence" replies, come on. How many times:

1. have you done a dungeon that takes five-ten more minutes over the average time?
2. Wiped multiple times in a hard mode trial
3. vote abandoned a 24 man run

in your daily play? If everyone is so bad, this should be pretty common, right?

I think you're missing the point. The skill floor for a dungeon is so low that if you've got 2 decent players you can clear virtually anything, especially if at least one of those players is the healer. That means in any given dungeon run at least one if not two or three players can be seriously underperforming and you'll still clear just fine.

In terms of a HM trial I've abandoned 2 Shin normal runs ever. Every other run I've cleared. As this is widely regarded as the hardest content in Trial Roulette I feel like it's the best measure of 8am trial completion. I have had my cohealer literally do nothing for the whole fight more than once. I know this might seem like bragging but it isn't because I'm the first to admit I'm not very good - I've never even been past O2S. Again, exceedingly low skill floor as you can literally clear the fight with someone not participating.

Even 24 man raids are a joke now. The other night a friend and I had an experience in Rabanastee where our tank was, essentially, a training dummy for the boss. I tanked our Azure Guard on WHM. No disband.

Then you hit the brick wall of Shin EX where I have had multiple people drop group for while I'm explaining mechanics because 'this just seems too complicated"...

... seems like we maybe need a bridge here, huh? Because when you go from fights you can mostly AFK (and rest assured people do) to fights where not paying attention kills you and your party you're gonna have a bad time.

In conclusion - bad players are everywhere. You're playing with them every day. You might not notice without a parser but in an average day of roulettes you're almost guaranteed to see more than one. They slip by because they don't need to get any better to clear the content they're doing then rage when something like the Vualt or RM comes around.