Is it time for relics to be the same ilevel as savage weapons?

[HyoMinPark]

You don't get to tell others what they need or don't need.

Except they’re right? You don’t need an ilevel 345 weapon even to clear Savage, much less clear any content that’s not Savage. The only content that really called for it is Ultimate.

That being said, again, it’s about making sure the developers don’t completely invalidate a set of weapons. Release a Relic in the same patch as a new Savage tier, with the same ilvl as a Savage weapon, and the Savage weapons are immediately invalidated. Why get them when you can get a Relic instead?

[Iromi]

This isn’t FFXI though. They already tried to make FFXIV like XI; it didn’t work out.

I see this said a lot..when was FFXIV made to be like FFXI ever? I have been playing since 1.0, 2010 and there was nothing even remotely similar game play wise. The only thing that was similar to FFXI in FFXIV was the races.

In 1.0 all there was to do was..8 leves. That's it, after that..you had to wait a WEEK for them to reset, and then if you wanted to go fight random monsters in the "open world" you had a cap on your EXP as well, it was called fatigue. That's...it. There was no story, no quests, no mounts, no NOTHING. No battle system with skill chains, magic burst, etc. There was battle regimen but it didn't work properly. As for the crafting, you needed so many pieces to make one item (Nothing like FFXI), like the front of the shirt, back, one sleeve, another sleeve, etc. I couldn't even play 1.0 because there was NOTHING to do.

The UI had weird "lag" where any action done had to be checked by the server before another action could start. The UI also looked kind of like an old FF game, again..nothing like FFXI.

The battle system was not similar to FFXI in any way. In 1.0 FFXIV, you just had a bunch of shared skills among the classes, none of them had any solid identity.

Really wish that FFXIV was like FFXI at one point...especially in 1.0, we would have had actual content and things to do.

FFXI had story, a solid battle system, the chocobo mount, NM's, HNM's, multiple jobs, a subjob system, an auction house, tons of instanced content to do (Salvage, Dynamis, Nyzul Isle)...when did we have this in FFXIV?

On par, hell - I think they should be superior. The best weapons in FFXI weren't dropped from the hardest content; they were ground out, painfully, over months and years. There's no reason it should be any different here.

Edit / Addition:


"Mindless grinding" is a phrase that encapsulates Raids in FFXIV, too, you know. There's just less of it (vs the Relic weapons), and the patience factor has as much to do with other people as anything else.

Yeah I agree, in any previous FF game relics were always the best IIRC! Difficulty is subjective too, to some..grinding is a serious challenge, it takes a lot of time invested, and time is the most precious thing we have. Raiding, on the other hand..well, from my personal experience, getting my raid weapon has been (subjective of course) WAYYYY easier then getting a legendary weapon in other games I've played (Aion, XI, Lineage II), and FFXIV. I think it should be on par with them, but then again since they insist on resetting the ilvl and everything ever 6 months, I think its pointless sadly, don't think that would ever work in this game and another issue is, what does it even need to be the "best" for, because there is nothing harder in this game then those 4 "raids" they release every 6 months. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have these weapons be top tier and have a lot of longevity, but XIV isn't designed that way, they'd have to change up a lot.

If there was actual horizontal content and more stuff to do as in, stronger monsters and actual raids (like a huge dungeon with hard bosses), I'd be all for it..but I find myself caring less and less these days.

I got a mythic, relic and that other thing in FFXI..empy weapon I think it was called? And some of those did take me years, but it was worth it to me. In this game..by the time years have passed, or even one..it will be obsolete with how they have this ilvl stuff.

[KaldeaSahaline]

"Mindless grinding" is a phrase that encapsulates Raids in FFXIV, too, you know. There's just less of it (vs the Relic weapons), and the patience factor has as much to do with other people as anything else.

Doing content that is near impossible to fail and requires no more thought or effort than simply pushing any key you feel like on the keyboard is NOT the same as current EX/Savage/Ultimate raiding.

It's a matter of being engaged. To me nothing below EX's engages me as a player. I need adversity to keep me engaged which is why Relic weapons are cancer for me. If I could accrue one by raiding I would support that.

Honestly the ilvl on it is completely irrelevant. Hell, the ilvl on all gear in this game is honestly irrelevant it's so bland. They simply just have better models 85% of the time. That's why I posed the idea of putting the really cool models with flashy effects behind raiding to test to the waters, and see if the majority community was ok with the Allagan spear as the reward for their long grind, instead of the Zodiac/Anima one.

Wow that's a rudely worded post

You decided to be offended by my post, without actually putting an iota of effort into analyzing it or offering a single counterpoint?

Don't be a walking stereotype. Nothing about it was worded "rudely". Saying "low skill" isn't rude. It's a simple fact. If someone said I'm a "low wage earner" that's not rude, it's a fact.

I don't know what to call/describe the majority playerbase other than based on skill. Casual isn't the right word because most of these players play on average 10x more than me in a given week. That's quite literally the furthest thing from casual.

Now that I've got that out of the way, would you care to enlighten me with some insight on the actual topic, that I posted?

[Sebazy]

Yeah I agree, in any previous FF game relics were always the best IIRC! Difficulty is subjective too, to some..grinding is a serious challenge

It almost saddens me to hear people compare FFXI's relics to FFXIV's tbh. I played from release to mid CoP and at that stage, relics were both exceptionally scarce and a monumental undertaking. The currency was an accomplishment that an entire Linkshell would need to commit to for the long haul. I understand that it became significantly easier down the line but still =/

Also do try to remember that like Everquest, FFXI was more of a horizontal progression model. My FFXI Bard was one of the best geared on the server and still happily touted around a bunch of mid 30s gear. The same goes for my Shaman in Everquest, rocking a couple of items from VP whilst raiding in the Ssra and the Planes. Itemisation was handled very differently back then (Which is kind of a shame IMHO!).

[Johaandr]

Lol some of u sound like "im a god bcuse im doing savage and my opinion matters". Lol no.
I do savage and i know till the next patch they wont matter. But its fun to do and i love hugging neo

Still its a small precent that people are raiding and wait till the last tier.
As for super savage thing its a optional. That content is for people who wants HARD challange so 2-5% playerbase? So it SHOULDNT be compared to relic thats has been around this game LONGER than super savage.
Dont correct me on facts cuse i hardly care.

IMO relic should ALWAYS be better than savage and EVEN ultimate savage.
Raiders or not it SHOUDNT MATTER for those who wants to claim the best wep. so to those who DISAGREE ur a proof of a living selfish who wants best for yourself bcuse u call ur self raider etc etc. So it shouldnt be "raider should always have the best wep". That is dumb to hear imo.
Savage gives random stats.. while relic you can customize.


Heck even the creator whm staff is better than genji whm which can be obtained by a casual player.
I love relic and i farmed alot of them in HW. They ALWAYS and will ALWAYS take more time than super savage WHICH is optinal... so is relic. If every1 did the first realese of anima and relic they know it.

Relic fits best for ur MAIN JOB so it doesnt make tomes/savage weps anyless useless which made all of ur arguments against miss.

[Sebazy]

IMO relic should ALWAYS be better than savage and EVEN ultimate savage even tho you DONT RAID.

Oki so lets say SE do indeed make the relic the best weapon.

So now casual Timmy comes along, grinds out his 1000 Wineport rats and crafts 500 Moogle shaped cupcakes or whatever for his Relic. He's got his big boy pants weapon, he will already have a multitude of sets of 330 tome gear from all the dungeons he's had to do en route to his relic and will promptly get to upgrade it once the 24man hits. Now you tell me, what inclination or motivation does our little casual Timmy have to ever step foot into Savage?

Think about that for a moment.

Do you actually think SE will ever go with an approach that renders that expensive Savage raid obsolete and pointless for the masses before it's even unlocked? The current Relic/Tome/Savage setup allows casuals to have strikingly close gear parity to world first raiders whilst still keeping that little carrot there over the Savage raid to lure people in. What's the issue with that?

[Johaandr]

is dis math..?

I not going to be rude or not give you a constructive answear but rather make you grasp that everything is optional and idc what timmy does?
For sake im not trying to be ignorant cuse what is dis lol. SE makes every contents possible for both casuals and raider lol. Think about that too.
No matter IF relic becomes the best weapon it wont stop people from doing savage. Cuse i wont.Lol.
Sorry i kinda missed ur whole point.lol
Just trying to make a statement that its no point argue or give me a riddle or whatever against me.

[ManuelBravo]

..
Do you actually think SE will ever go with an approach that renders that expensive Savage raid obsolete and pointless for the masses before it's even unlocked? The current Relic/Tome/Savage setup allows casuals to have strikingly close gear parity to world first raiders whilst still keeping that little carrot there over the Savage raid to lure people in. What's the issue with that?

When you think about it relics were in place as an alternative to people who really don't want to raid. -.-.... People usually raid for the story, gear or items to upgrade tome gear. While weapons are a nice incentive I too think relics should be made the strongest weapons above raids. Little Timmy can go on FC raids or help out he pays his own subscription so he can play what ever he likes >.>

[Sebazy]

Just trying to make a statement that its no point argue or give me a riddle or whatever against me.

My point is, raids need a carrot to motivate people. Look at how many people are still working on Unending Coil now. 2-5%? I'd be amazed if it even hits 0.2-0.5% before 4.2.

It's always been possible to hit the iLvl cap leading into a new raid tier. Making the relic the best weapon might be nice for non raiders, but it'd be bad for the game's endgame scene and long term player retention overall. That is not a healthy design decision for a subscription MMO.

[Johaandr]

My point is, raids need a carrot to motivate people. Look at how many people are still working on Unending Coil now. 2-5%? I'd be amazed if it even hits 0.2-0.5% before 4.2.

It's always been possible to hit the iLvl cap leading into a new raid tier. Making the relic the best weapon might be nice for non raiders, but it'd be bad for the game's endgame scene and long term player retention overall. That is not a healthy design decision for a subscription MMO.

nah it wont. Jeez it wont be bad. You rlly need to expand ur horizont and view things differently