Is it time for relics to be the same ilevel as savage weapons?

[Sebazy]

However what is wrong with allowing others to acquire similar gear at the same ilvl?

Because this is a game of vertical progression.

If you remove the carrot, what are you left with? The reward needs to justify the means to get it. Want the big boy pants weapons? You'd better do the big boy pants content.

Endless coil is an extreme but relevant example of this, my own group is very likely capable of clearing it, as is my previous group from Gordias/Midas, in both cases, motivation has been the key stumbling block with my current bunch being unwilling to even dip their toes.

Remove the desire for those Savage weapons and you'll do the same to a lot of casual/midcore groups, which will potentially lead to another big drop in raid content interaction rates amongst the player base as a whole (The very reason we've got these comparatively easy raids in the first place).

By comparison, relic weapons are a pure and simple time sink with very little challenge beyond 'Can you afford this mat?' or 'Can you stay awake?'. They are very different things and as such, offer very different rewards. I do think it'd be nice to have them attaining parity during odd numbered patches (aka mid content cycle) to spread content out a little tho.

[Tint]

i think this was waay better in 2.0.

for example we got the ilvl 115 relic and the raiders had their ilvl 115 raid weapon at the end of 2.3, casuals had their ilvl 110 weapon from tomestone and 24 man raid. then 2.4 came and you could start progressing with your ilvl 115 weapons. raiders got the ilvl 120 weapon mid raid, could upgrade it to ilvl 130 and at the end they got their ilvl 135 weapon. at the same time shiva ex was introduced with ilvl 110 weapons, basically to catch up and gearing secondary classes. but she also dropped an ilvl 120 accessory, wich was a nice upgrade for everyone in early 2.4. later you could upgrade the shiva weapon to i115. and the relic could be upgraded to ilvl 125. then was the ilvl 120 weapon available through the 24 man raid for everyone and then the relic was upgraded to ilvl 135.

so the raid weapons were the best weapons for a loong time, relic was behind, but not by far, and catched up at the end of the patch cycle and casuals were behind the relic, but also not by far. and you could use your raid weapon and your relic to progress the next raid tier, instead of throwing the weapons away and grind the new ex primal before entering the raid like in 3.x o.ô;

[Vaer]

Considering they're still being super stingy with the tome weapon upgrade item (its still locked behind O3S) with no relic in sight (they want people to do shinryu I guess) I feel like they probably wouldn't bother doing this very early if at all.

[Felis]

The best weapon will be as always first the raid weapon, and then, after the last main patch before the next expansion, the last step relic weapon

[RiyahArp]

I don't really care about potency, it's not like we use them for anything that matters. Mostly relic matters because it's the only real long term endgame for 80% or more of the playerbase. I'd rather it be a cool, engaging experience than worry about ilvls.

[SieyaM]

I just started savage content this round and it's alright but actually not as hard as I thought it would be from hearing about it. I really don't mind the relic being slightly lower Ilevel that the raid gear, just as long as it's better than the tome gear. For the time and effort put into it, it should be worth something more than the simple gear you exchange currency for.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

All this argument is why I suggested that Relics be 5 ilevels higher than the upgraded Tomestone weapons, and Savage weapons 5 ilevels higher than Relics.

[HyoMinPark]

I just started savage content this round and it's alright but actually not as hard as I thought it would be from hearing about it. I really don't mind the relic being slightly lower Ilevel that the raid gear, just as long as it's better than the tome gear. For the time and effort put into it, it should be worth something more than the simple gear you exchange currency for.

All this argument is why I suggested that Relics be 5 ilevels higher than the upgraded Tomestone weapons, and Savage weapons 5 ilevels higher than Relics.

Agreed. I think this would be a fair compromise.

Just using the current gear as an example, even though we don’t have a relic:
Tomestone/Shinryu: i335 (unaugmented could stay i330)
Relic: i340
Savage: i345

I also repeat that I would not be opposed to “catch-up patches” allowing relics to just up the 5 ilvls needed to be “on par” with Savage weapons. That way, the Savage weapon can have 3 months of relevancy, and then the Relic peeps can upgrade their relics to be an “on par” weapon after those first 3 months. I feel like that would be a fair compromise, especially since, in the end, the Relics are automatical BiS anyways.

[kikix12]

The relic either should be easier and less time-consuming to get, or comparable in power to what can be gotten fast but with effort.

Every moment spent on relic quests is a moment not spent on something else. As that time accumulates, the person can end up with a weaker character than what they would get if they decided not to do the relic. Not to mention, for some people with limited time, the relic grind DOES make the weapon effectively unobtainable.

As it is, the relics are anything but balanced. They are crap (possibly even compared to non-raid/non-savage weapons one can easily get) for a LONG while, and after that LONG while, they are still sub-par, but at least customized. There is nothing gotten out of them except for glamour (not valuable enough, but not to be dismissed) and story...but then again, that story is in-between long, long grinds, thus it's not smooth. And that makes it far less enjoyable for no real reason.

So yes, either the quests should be shorter from the get-go (not an expansion later) or the weapons better, because time investment is a kind of "effort" as well. Just one that is eventually obtainable by anyone.

If they want to make the older dungeons/trials alive, they should make long individual quests that clearly give nothing but glamour gear after the single quest, not an entire quest line that is based entirely on those long quests. If one would be getting something after every step, it would make the "grind" far less grindy and far more acceptable.

[kuma_aus]

I wish they would just release the relics on time so that you could use them during the start of a raid tier. Raiders would gladly spend hours farming the relics even if they would be replaced eventually.

I don't care if they are not the strongest, I just want them to be relevant for longer than they have been.

End game would die faster than you could say "Gordias" if every time there was a raid tier released, raiders had to spend 20+ hours to grind away something they find extremely boring just to get a weapon to compete for world first or even a clear.

Relic is meant to be done over time, not to be rushed and farmed as soon as it's out.