Is it time for relics to be the same ilevel as savage weapons?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Why shouldn't it though? Time and effort is time and effort. Someone who only gets an hour here and there to play that would like to raid, but just can't due to real life can't get the best gear. Why? Because raider's would be butt hurt? I understand that clearing the hardest content deserves an reward. Give them a nice shiny title or exclusive glamour gear, but don't limit the ilvl of a weapon just because they have the time to dedicate to the game. Anyone that can dedicate 7-8 hours a day to the game to learn content would be able to clear it eventually. Thousands of others would love to dedicate that much time, but have responsibility outside of the game or don't get to work from home.

They do give raiders a reward: five higher ilvls on their weapons. What makes you entitled to the absolute best gear? Because you want it? Okay. I want to clear Ultimate, but presently have the group willing to put in that many hours. Real life getting in the way shouldn't be an excuse to hand everyone what is essentially a participation trophy. No offense, but saying raiders should just be happy with a title and glamour everyone will farm unsynced later comes across incredibly condescending. We're "butt hurt" because you want everything?

[Shouko]

Why shouldn't it though? Time and effort is time and effort. Someone who only gets an hour here and there to play that would like to raid, but just can't due to real life can't get the best gear. Why? Because raider's would be butt hurt? I understand that clearing the hardest content deserves an reward. Give them a nice shiny title or exclusive glamour gear, but don't limit the ilvl of a weapon just because they have the time to dedicate to the game. Anyone that can dedicate 7-8 hours a day to the game to learn content would be able to clear it eventually. Thousands of others would love to dedicate that much time, but have responsibility outside of the game or don't get to work from home.

I just want to point out that people often forget that MMO's are meant to be literal time sinks, grindfests, not speed run, things handed to you because you played the game better than someone else. I come from a background of gaming for about 30-35 years of my life and can honestly say that the times where you used a guide to get past something was only if you were stuck, you didn't get things handed to you and you didn't pay to progress, you put in the hours to get 100% on a game and as a reward you got a skin, character, whatever. These days it's like everyone wants things the easy way instead of putting effort into them. If you don't have time to play a MMO then it's typically not a game you should be playing. If you want the reward for the hardest content then you need to put in the effort to get it.

I'm not trying to sound elitist or claim one way is better than the other but imo the reward should be fitting of the amount of energy you put into it. If you don't have a lot of time to play, I know I sure don't, I don't expect to just grind out a weapon that's equal to the hardest content in the game. Then again I don't think it matters in this game as the gear is replaced so fast anyhow before you know it savage lvl gear is going to be replaced by dungeon gear in the next expansion or even the next big raid to come out.

This is initially the problem with gear elevator type games where you're always shedding gear in lieu for the next piece. If this were XI then maybe people might have a point and because the gear lasts longer in XI than it does in XIV it would be more appealing to have a relic that lasts the while.

I probably repeated myself a few times and kinda incoherent due to being tired but felt that I needed to get that out, before going to bed.

[Nyxn607]

We're "butt hurt" because you want everything?

First off ... I never said "I" want anything. We're "butt hurt" because you want everything? Your exact wording in case you forgot.
Second: I know my limitations in the game, I know I will never obtain the best gear. I am asking for a way for those (Not me) that do want the best gear, but can't dedicate the time to raiding to be able to obtain it another way.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

First off ... I never said "I" want anything. We're "butt hurt" because you want everything? Your exact wording in case you forgot.
Second: I know my limitations in the game, I know I will never obtain the best gear. I am asking for a way for those (Not me) that do want the best gear, but can't dedicate the time to raiding to be able to obtain it another way.

You in the general sense. Either way, I already addressed this point. Someone's lack of available time does not entitle them to all the same perks as someone who can set aside time to clear the hardest fights. I'll, again, reiterate, making the relic equivalent to Savage weapons invalidates the latter. With two weeks before Savage's releases, all the hardcore raiders will have their relics done since they won't have much else to do anyway. Therefore, the actual Savage weapons become little more than alt job upgrades just because someone who plays nothing but easy content wants everything. This doesn't even cover tomestone weapons would be absolutely worthless.

Simply put, if you don't have the time or desire to raid, ilvl 340 is your highest level. Nothing outside Savage comes remotely close to necessitating that high an ilvl anyway.

[Nyxn607]

Simply put, if you don't have the time or desire to raid, ilvl 340 is your highest level. Nothing outside Savage comes remotely close to necessitating that high an ilvl anyway.

I agree with this point. However what is wrong with allowing others to acquire similar gear at the same ilvl? Not the same exact gear mind you, but similar (different stats/looks come to mind) It won't affect how anyone plays the game. Raiders will still raid, casual's will still be casual. I should also mention that I was a hard core raider at one point in my gaming career. So I get that raiders want to feel accomplished ... I really do. I don't mind raiders getting exclusive looks or gear, but wanting the best ilvl gear kept to a small portion of the community is rather selfish. But then again we do live in a "its all about me society."

[HyoMinPark]

So I get that raiders want to feel accomplished ... I really do. I don't mind raiders getting exclusive looks or gear, but wanting the best ilvl gear kept to a small portion of the community is rather selfish. But then again we do live in a "its all about me society."

I want to point out the irony of saying this, but in the same breath saying that people who don’t raid are entitled to the best gear because “I want it”.

If people want the best gear in the game, then they should do the content that gives them the best gear in the game. If they can’t because of life, then, I’m sorry but that’s just the way it is. Doesn’t mean they are entitled to receive the best gear.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I agree with this point. However what is wrong with allowing others to acquire similar gear at the same ilvl? Not the same exact gear mind you, but similar (different stats/looks come to mind) It won't affect how anyone plays the game. Raiders will still raid, casual's will still be casual. I should also mention that I was a hard core raider at one point in my gaming career. So I get that raiders want to feel accomplished ... I really do. I don't mind raiders getting exclusive looks or gear, but wanting the best ilvl gear kept to a small portion of the community is rather selfish. But then again we do live in a "its all about me society."

Read my previous posts. I really cannot make this any clearer. Relics being the equivalent ilvl of Savage weapons invalidates all other forms of progression. Had relics released with Stormblood's launch, everyone would have access to the best weapon before any other gear piece. In fact, you cannot even upgrade tomestone in even numbered patches without clearing floors two and three. And like I already said above, the creation tomestone weapons are completely worthless.

Finally, I will defer to Hyomin's post. You're accusing raiders of being selfish yet think it isn't selfish to essentially say "I don't have the time raid like you do, but I still want the best stuff." And no, not you specifically.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

The relic weapon is designed to be the long, "easy" road to the best weapon, in contrast to a quicker acquisition through the game's toughest challenges. But so as not to invalidate said challenges, it usually is behind raid weapons until the end.

That aside, I have to ask people: Given ALL the complaints of the Zodiac and Anima weapons questlines, SE decided to try something different (rather than Atma AGAIN). Yes, it's taking a bit longer (side note; Yoshi P did say that perhaps Stormblood will continue beyond a 4.5), but would you rather wait a bit and have a new, possibly enjoyable approach to relic content, or would you want to deal with the same old grinds with new paint just so you can start sooner?

[Masekase_Hurricane]

I'm not bothered that the weapon isn't the same ilvl as the Savage weapon. Although I do find it annoying that majority of the time it's weaker than the tome weapon. Even once the tome weapon is able to be upgraded via 24 man the Anima was still weaker. I would just like it to be a relevant weapon not a glamour piece for the majority of the expansion. Saying that at this rate I would just like to actually see the weapon :S

[Almandaragal]

Figure I'll throw in my two gil here, without going into previous debates or anything. As a player whose hardware alone makes it physically impossible to even bother with Savage, or probably any raids that are actually worth mentioning (much less my desire to play such content), I'd say no.

At a personal level, and if I'm feeling a tad greedy, I'd say 5 levels below current raid tier stuff. Frankly, until the final patch of the cycle, I think it would be fair to stay 10 item levels behind, and only finally get to 5 behind with the final step.

As noted above, I'll never be a raider. My graphics card is 5+ years old (still have to run directX 9 because my card doesn't support 11, and FFXIV skipped 10 it seems), so various effects give me problem. The steam baths in Kugane, certain particle effects. Those whirpools that Susano does? Can almost never get out of them in time, because by the time they render in all of their fanciness, half of my dodge time is gone. I don't really even care to do all of that kind of stuff anyway. I'm quite content with casual content. Even as I learn DRK, I'm finding most dungeons alright. Tioman in Sohm Al is annoying for example, but everything else is just fine.

But with that casual approach comes less content that I will experience and put in the time to overcome. To use the basics of the older relics (yes, I know, we're supposed to get a new system, but we don't have it, so I'll have to compare to other stuff), while the grind is real, running older dungeons, that even synced aren't as difficult, isn't as much of an accomplishment. Sticking with it is definitely noteworthy, but how is that more noteworthy than someone who not only stuck with it on the high end content, but did content that is arguably much more annoying per unit time spent in it? Because we did more of the easy stuff for a lot longer? I say let the people who can duke it out at that level of play have their bragging rights and slightly stronger equipment-- they deserve it. Staying out of the whole glamour arena, if we get within 5 ilevels, there's not really anything to complain about, to me. When the next cycle starts the items will all be invalidated stat wise anyway. If there are those of us who aren't taking on the top tier content, then we don't really even need that stuff. And if we change our minds? We have good stuff to try, if not quite as good. It's still something to strive for. I say anyone who has gone through the hell of that kind of crap has earned it. Susano and Shinryu normal annoy me between my hardware issues and how they're more DDR than fighting, so I say if they want to go that far, give them something for it. Five item levels isn't exactly enough to keep us out of being able to do base level stuff for the next expansion. Hell, I was able to use Shire gear through nearly half of Stormblood before I needed to upgrade.