Black Mage

[Dualgunner]

lol no I don't hate Blm - I hate the hypercritical behavior from most of the Blms Player, espacially the loudest cry-babys who actually were those people who make fun of us some month ago "chill out guys or just switch cls" - "deal with that" etc thats a huge difference - but now? saw any smn who talk like that nowadays?

Basically seeing one now telling black mages to stop whining and wait their turn. That count?

[Neela]

you didn't get the point...

[Dualgunner]

You're not communicating your point very well.

[Lina_Slayer]

I propose we stop feeding the obvious troll and go back to actual balance discussion... I was thinking that maybe a 100% uptime 10% magic vulnerability non-stackable debuff on ALL casters (not only BLM) coupled with potency adjustments would probably fix the double physical ranged meta by basically brute-forcing a caster into the meta and if they balance the potencies correct you can have BLM as the best caster on fights with little movement like OS2 and SMN/RDM as the prefered caster for high movement fights, we know there will always be a meta, but with fight design you can have different jobs being the meta for different fights...

[Neela]

Damage and utility in raids is exactly what we balance dps jobs around.

if you take dmg over cls/toolkit design ill wonder why smn was called broken with sb - cause if we just look at dmg eirene and some other did shows that smn actually was way stronger at release than people admit but the cls design was so dumb that most of the com couldn't archive it. we actually never cried for DPS INCREASE or TOP RAID-RANKING POSITION we cried about the bad design and stack punishment. they tried to change that and the outcome was more dps but it was not just a pot buff like Blm now demand... : /

so yeah for me its as important how a cls gameplay is not just how much e-penis numbers I can share on fflogs or communities... and I guess most smn thought that way back in the days. For most of you its just about making the most dmg again. And thats exactly whats the difference is.

[Galvuu]

snip

And Summoner was actually better at release than most people said. It was just very hard to execute- like you said, Eirene showed that you could excel with it.
Regardless of what anyone said, Summoner right now is completely eclipsing not only the other two casters, but a number of other jobs (even Samurai).
That's just the reality of it, and that's what we need to take into account.

You don't raid- it's obvious by your arguments and your poor understanding how jobs interact with each other. That's perfectly okay, but that also means you don't understand most of the problems and struggles being discussed here.
I've been playing bard for months, and I'm pushing through Ultimate with Bard also. And I don't want to. I want to progress in Ultimate with Black Mage, because it's my favourite job.
But we're working through Nael (and have seen the beginning of Bahamut a few times) and I know that I'm just going to be handicapping my team if I bring Black Mage. It's too punishing (and we're gonna lose the Refresh and the Troubadour for the Fireballs/Thermionic Beams).
I literally cannot go play the job I love unless I'm willing to greatly diminish our chances to clear the fight and force my team to do a much greater effort to adjust to my crappy job.
(Like I said, every other job in the game has cleared this fight except Black Mage).

This is what this thread and discussion is about.
And until you go into Ultimate and start working on Nael then, I'm sorry, you simply have no idea what we're discussing here and how incredibly unfair it feels.
This is about a piece of content that's incredibly important for a portion of the playerbase (the same portion to whom balance is critical) which practically invalidates one of the jobs.
Nowhere else is balance as important as O3/O4S and, above all, Ultimate.

[Dualgunner]

we actually never cried for DPS INCREASE or TOP RAID-RANKING POSITION we cried about the bad design and stack punishment. they tried to change that and the outcome was more dps but it was not just a pot buff like Blm now demand... : /

Really?

You have no real argument...so you're gonna virtue signal? "Oh the glorious and righteous summoners weren't at all worried about damage in stormblood"

Easy to talk like that now--when summoner is the de facto best dps in the game on its own right now. Black Mages are actively kept from parties for how little they bring, and red mages are used up and tossed aside for summoners once prog is done.

Maybe you specifically weren't asking for more damage ceiling. But SE certainly buffed smn up, and right now largely invalidate the other casters.

[Maero]

Or maybe just maybe get out of your bubble of just playing smn before commenting on blm (or even Red Mage) ?
I play all 3 caster jobs but do not play smn enough so never ever do i post or did post in all of the smn complaint threads back when because i would have nothing of value to add to the conversations.
Fact of the matter is the SE fix was to buff smn to a point were other jobs are weak especially one which is supposed to be higher damage because i don't know has no utility?

[Dualgunner]

Lets drive the point home a bit.
In ultimate, 16 summoners have uploaded parses. More summoners have cleared ultimate than any other job. Red Mage has one uploaded parse. Black Mage has none.

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/19

[Neela]

Really?

You have no real argument...so you're gonna virtue signal? "Oh the glorious and righteous summoners weren't at all worried about damage in stormblood"

Easy to talk like that now--when summoner is the de facto best dps in the game on its own right now. Black Mages are actively kept from parties for how little they bring, and red mages are used up and tossed aside for summoners once prog is done.

Maybe you specifically weren't asking for more damage ceiling. But SE certainly buffed smn up, and right now largely invalidate the other casters.

maybe you should consider that not everybody hunts for numbers? if u think that I just talk about cls-design cause im out of arguments, you are exactly one of them I mentioned before. I never denied that we are to strong right now - how could i ? I just said the situations were different - and yet if you try to deny that just shows that you run out of arguments yourself. Also Blms comm disagree intern whats the real problem is... some say lose your res than we talk bout balance (others say res don't give a shit), utility is way to strong (actually the utility haven't change much ever since) and than the main point more raw dmg due burst/dot uptime. i understand the number argument, cause thats actually true. So I guess if Smn would parse lower numbers res/utility won't be an argument anymore right? From my side you can have all the numbers dbl or triple smn parses idk but I would still say Mnk/Smn need cls-design rework.