Open world PvP Zone

[Kisagami]

My server and guild is constantly using the dueling arena... many of my players don’t do larger PVP runs. They just like the 1 vs1 duels.

[Shouko]

Snip.

Getting into semantics now. sure technically hopscotch can be considered a PvP situation but we're not talking about anything PvP, we're talking about killing your opponent's character with skills. Look at how many PvP only games released have a campaign or a PvE type setting, oh wait there aren't any because PvP shouldn't be mixed with PvE, not only do they have to balance skills for one side but then have to balance it for the other side without hindering the main side which is of course PvE, I don't know how well this is done as I don't PvP in MMO's anymore.

These days it's just people trying to abuse the system or cheat or min max things so they can bully another player. I don't care if honestly gets implemented or not, i'm just here debating for the sake of conversation, it's not like my opinion or any one person's opinion is going to matter.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Getting into semantics now. sure technically hopscotch can be considered a PvP situation but we're not talking about anything PvP, we're talking about killing your opponent's character with skills. Look at how many PvP only games released have a campaign or a PvE type setting, oh wait there aren't any because PvP shouldn't be mixed with PvE, not only do they have to balance skills for one side but then have to balance it for the other side without hindering the main side which is of course PvE, I don't know how well this is done as I don't PvP in MMO's anymore.

These days it's just people trying to abuse the system or cheat or min max things so they can bully another player. I don't care if honestly gets implemented or not, i'm just here debating for the sake of conversation, it's not like my opinion or any one person's opinion is going to matter.

As far as PvP only games with PvE campaigns, you just described nearly every first person shooter ever. Often times, the campaign serves as a means to learn the controls without being thrust right into active multiplayer battles right away. And it goes without saying that some games are known for both having a well written campaign, and highly enjoyable multiplayer.

As for having to balance things for both sides, I can't stress enough that they'd hit a decent balance point by the end of Heavensward, especially in standardizing cc skills (which everyone had back then) to 6 seconds at the most, with diminishing returns for each application (6, then 4, then 2, then 1, then immunity for 60 sec.). Many of the "useless" skills from PvE were highly useful in PvP, and examples like Miasma having one of its effects removed or Unleash being a bind in PvP and not in PvE show that balancing both was entirely possible, and already was being done.

Lastly, as far as "bullying another player" goes, some people feel the need to do that. I don't. I get no satisfaction from it, nor does it make me feel like a better player. Now, if provoked or attacked, I'll meet that with full force and won't feel the least bit bothered by it. But I'm sure there are many players that don't feel the need to actively hunt or grief other players, and it's wrong to just assume all players who'd be interested in open world PvP just want to bully others.

[Shirolumi]

This game isn't set up for PvP was we've already established, so how long is one new zone appease you until you get bored of it and want something new yet again? The reason I say that you should go to a game designed around PvP for PvP is so you can do it to your hearts content, something like Overwatch is more akin to PvP like this game but oriented towards PvP in general. It has plenty of characters to choose from it's action packed, it's constantly updating maps and characters to add in for PvP.

I'm not going to throw a fit or rage if it does happen, i'm merely making conversation and asking why people want it so badly in a non PvP oriented game.

The thing is, that argument doesn't work. Plenty of people mention it in this thread. But I hate Overwatch. Not interested in it at all. I love this game. I want PvP in this game. Why can't you go and play some other PvE oriented game instead?

And of course we are going to want more after awhile. Maybe not a new zone, but a new mode or something. Am I not allowed to want that? Why are you allowed to want something more for PvE?

And this game is set up for PvP, we have it and there are people who enjoy it a lot. Just because it isn't as good in some peoples eye as PvP in other games, doesn't mean its not meant for this game or set up for it. Because if it was like you said, we wouldn't have PvP in the game.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Why can't you go and play some other PvE oriented game instead?

I wanted to highlight this, as it's a great counter to all the people that say "If you want PvP go play another game that's meant for it."

Imagine for a moment if the devs thought that way, and frequently redirected people that want a feature in game that wasn't previously there. XIV's hosuing system isn't the greatest, but imagine if they said "If you want a good housing system, go play another game"? Imagine if they said that with glamours? We'd have a pretty dry game if not for the devs being open to what the players want.

And like it or not, there are enough of us in this "PvE-focused" game that also enjoy PvP. More than you might think. Key word: ALSO. To redirect those players also impacts PvE, while actually offering them content to appeal to their requests hardly impacts it.

[Divinemights]

PvP zone in this mom is just not feasible, game mechanic and lore isn't built around concept of World PVP (it is actually ganking). People plays for reward, if no reward, it would a just going to die out like the dueling. It is pointless. If you are requesting for FF11 ballista, I am for sure 100% support it

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

PvP zone in this mom is just not feasible, game mechanic and lore isn't built around concept of World PVP (it is actually ganking). People plays for reward, if no reward, it would a just going to die out like the dueling. It is pointless. If you are requesting for FF11 ballista, I am for sure 100% support it

I have the ADS, the white ADS, all 3 GC horse mounts, all 3 Garo mounts, the Makai Master title, Hand of Mercy, Knight of Glory, and I STILL actively queue for PvP. I level my jobs via dungeons and roulettes like I always did, so I'm not even using PvP for that.

It IS possible to actually like and enjoy playing PvP in this game for the sake of enjoying PvP. And if people want a reward, they can offer rewards. . . for people that WANT to PvP. If anyone isn't interested in PvP, or wouldn't want to venture in, then the rewards simply aren't for them.

Want a lore reason? Here's one I came up with while typing:

PvP Zone: Crystalline Wastes (West Shroud)
Concept: Officially, the Grand Companies deemed an expedition into the West Shroud for any reason would be of no use, given the widespread devastation in the wake of the Sixth Calamity. But the adventurer's spirit and curiosity are as unyielding as Eorzea's will to recover from the Calamity, and the possibility of fight or fortune is hard to resist. Thus having discovered a way into the forsaken area, you now embark on a dangerous and lawless adventure, where any other adventurer can be friend or foe!

A little imagination and open-mindedness can go a long way.

[Hyrist]

I wanted to highlight this, as it's a great counter to all the people that say "If you want PvP go play another game that's meant for it."

Actually, while both arguments are heinous, one is more rooted.

I can rephrase this many times in as many ways, but it's becoming clear that there is blinders in play here. This isn't a "each opinion is weighted equally" kind of debate. You're fighting an uphill battle here. Open World PvP is a subset of the already minority community of avid PvP Players. And we've already multiple methods of satisfying multitude of other playstyles that aren't gank-related.

Fair group v group Pvp? We got Feast for that.
Large group objective play? Look at all these Frontlines!
And now we have a MOBA-alike coming.

The one mode that we got that was a lot like roaming and ganking? (Slaughter) It got removed.

So out of all the types of content we had, the one most like what you are requesting a massive expansion of is the only mode they flat out removed - can you see why I say the evidence is leaning one way over another?

It already seems that SE does not wish to encourage gameplay that is only about killing another player. Which, is sad, cause I did like Slaughter as a mode. But if we can't even get that mode back, do you really think open World PvP has a chance?

Screw the inflammatory arguments, please think of this logically.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Slaughter was basically Secure without the non-player objectives. Team Deathmatch, basically. And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a rather basic competitive multiplayer mode? It wasn't large amounts of players finding and taking out unsuspecting players. You knew what you queued for, the objective was quite clear. Why it was removed, other than being such an underplayed mode (thanks to being left for dead at level 50 all through Heavensward) is something you'd have to ask SE. If we wanted it back enough, that is, if enough player demand wanted to see Slaughter return as a mode, it's entirely possible. I know the PvP community has a real bad case of defeat when it comes to SE hearing us on anything, but they DO listen. Freelancer and the Dueling circle wouldn't exist otherwise. Those weren't their ideas. They were ours.

Let it also be noted that the rules for Secure, Seize, and Shatter clearly note in the descriptions of how to score, "as well as defeating other players". If they didn't wish to encourage gameplay that's only about killing another player, that would be the complete antithesis of Player versus Player gameplay that involves combat.

That said, the common issue here is people assume - and I understand there's experience behind this - that players are simply going to hunt and gank unsuspecting players. So let me ask these few questions:

• If a PvP zone is clearly marked and defined, with a notification upon trying to enter: how would it be possible for someone uninterested in PvP to "accidentally" wind up there?
• If there is no required PvE content within said area, how would it be an issue for any player uninterested in PvP?
• If a player can toggle a status to signal they do/do not wish to PvP within the area, how is it an issue to be attacked if/when you don't wish to be?
• If there's every accomodation made to ensure that someone who does not wish to PvP at all is in no way affected by, or impacted by such an area existing, then where lies the issue in allowing such an area to be added?

These questions continue to be dodged, for the sake of the "but I don't want to get ganked!" narrative. If there's absolutely no possibility of that happening, even if you're in the area and have your "Don't touch me" status on, then what's the issue?

[Alien_Gamer]

These questions continue to be dodged, for the sake of the "but I don't want to get ganked!" narrative. If there's absolutely no possibility of that happening, even if you're in the area and have your "Don't touch me" status on, then what's the issue?

Thats not the only question at play but things are starting to run around in circles in this thread. I apologize if i'm inferring too much into peoples posts but I think the main point most of the non-PvP players are trying to make is that we don't want PvP in the PvE maps but we don't have a problem with PvP players getting a new mode for a more free form style of combat and it seems most of the PvP players in this thread are in agreement that a new mode for that is fine. Simply put, I don't think there is any way you can convince someone that doesn't like PvP that bringing PvP into a PvE map will be a good thing for them or PvE in general. And conversely you will always see it as a good thing because you like PvP.

Personally, I'd be more inclined to let this thread die and open a new thread about new PvP modes instead of trying to fight for open world PvP...there may just be too much baggage with that term and this thread title for you to have the discussion you want to have.