Open world PvP Zone

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I haven't made those posts because unlike pvp, that's all mostly decent content. Diadem was a mess, sure, and lord of verminion was a pretty big waste, I don't think too many people are going to fight me on either of those points, but otherwise, most of the new content they've added has been fine.



Okay. I won't tell you. I mean, it's somewhat true, but hey, you told me not to tell you. That said, I do actually participate in pvp as well. Most of my glamour sets have a couple pvp pieces and I even have all of the garo mounts. The problem is that while grinding out an ex-primal or something for a glam piece is fun, pvping for all those things was a miserable experiece because, unless the game is built for it from the ground up, most mmo pvp, this one's included, is trash.

The glamouor pieces and the garo mounts should have all been available from something else, but hey, I shut up and grit my teeth and ground through it because complaining about it probably wouldn't get me anywhere. That said, this thread here is suggesting more of the worst content this game has to offer. I'd rather not see any more of it get made, so I'm just here expressing my thoughts on the OP's suggestion.

Don't try to act cute, and definitely don't try to garner sympathy. You chose to grind for it, but the glamour gear was always going to be available via Gold Saucer as well. Too bad, so sad on the mounts. The Garo creator wished for it to work that way. You don't need everything in game, but if you want it, then sometimes you've got to be ready to do content you don't enjoy. Which speaking of, I'm willing to bet that given your dislike of PvP, you made no attempt to learn anything about it, and thus had a more difficult experience. Is that it? That's hardly exclusive to PvP; if you don't learn the mechanics of a primal battle or a raid, you're not likely to get the rewards from it until you can outgear/unsync it. And even then, that's not always the case.

That said, you've made your opinion on the matter known. . . that's nice. Others who aren't crazy about the idea have at least offered their own or were willing to compromise where you simply prattle on about how you don't like PvP and don't want anymore PvP content made. . . I suppose the only person who'll be more disappointed than PvPers have been about what little content they get is you, and you're not likely to find much in the way of sympathy here with that sentiment.

[Shouko]

Why do people feel the need to add pvp into everything that's not meant to be pvp? There a lot of games out there specifically are built around pvp, why insist on adding it into games that are primarily pve focused?

[Mofafafa]

Why do people feel the need to add pvp into everything that's not meant to be pvp? There a lot of games out there specifically are built around pvp, why insist on adding it into games that are primarily pve focused?

Yes, you're right, ff14 is PvE focused game. Just like Diadem is so PvE centric that allow everyone to enjoy playing it.

such huge resources pour into it and everyone loves it

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Why do people feel the need to add pvp into everything that's not meant to be pvp? There a lot of games out there specifically are built around pvp, why insist on adding it into games that are primarily pve focused?

The same question can be asked in reverse. Why are people so adverse to PvP in a game that already has it because there was enough player demand for it, and in no way enforces it on anyone? Yoshi P noted that the game simply isn't built for it currently. Hunts, FATEs, gathering, there's too much open world content that would be impacted with a system like that, but he's reasonable enough to consider creating PvP servers if players wished it.


That said, people here are simply asking for a zone. A ZONE. New, or reused. Hell, they could just add onto the Wolves Den Pier, as it's clearly connected to a nearby landmass. People have suggested and recommended almost every possible accomodation so that non-PvPers neither have to go anywhere near it, nor miss out on anything PvE-related for not wanting to go near/through it. PvPers are the ones trying to compromise here, but at least get a little more than a 90/10 split. So where's the issue? That is, where's the issue beyond wishy-washy entitlements and two-dimensional opinions?

It's fine if you don't like PvP. NOTHING in this game forces it on you. Nothing save for the rewards exclusive to PvP is missed by not doing it. And as I said before, you don't HAVE to have everything. Certainly not PvP rewards if you dislike PvP. I don't like hunts. I LOVE tigers, and I really wanted that tiger mount, but I don't like hunts enough to make myself do them. And that's fine. Hunts aren't forced on me in any way, and for that reason, I have no issue with them being in game. I'll even call them out for the ones that do enjoy it, or do my part to help if I'm in a party that wants to go after one. But reverse that and have me asking that same party to participate in one PvP instance, and you'd think I asked them to go commit a crime.

PvPers aren't asking for a total overhaul of FFXIV. They're asking for a little more. That's all we've ever asked for. Yet it's unacceptable in some people's eyes. Or worse, you have people who legitimately think PvP takes away from resources for more PvE content. Updates for PvP are so scarce, that's ridiculous to think. Just using Frontlines for example, major updates to it were 2.3 (when it was added), 3.05, 3.3, and now finally something new and different from it in 4.15. Everything else has been regular PvE updates, including within those same patches. Some things were even delayed, but tell me how PvP had anything to do with that in those cases?

I can't stress enough that wanting to "keep PvP out of my MMOs" is a pretty terrible mindset, especially in a game where it already gets so little support from both devs and players. . . But a playerbase DOES exist for it, and all they want is a little more they can enjoy, and not even in a way that impacts others or forces them to have to bother with it. What's so wrong with that?

[Shouko]

This game isn't set up for PvP was we've already established, so how long is one new zone appease you until you get bored of it and want something new yet again? The reason I say that you should go to a game designed around PvP for PvP is so you can do it to your hearts content, something like Overwatch is more akin to PvP like this game but oriented towards PvP in general. It has plenty of characters to choose from it's action packed, it's constantly updating maps and characters to add in for PvP.

I'm not going to throw a fit or rage if it does happen, i'm merely making conversation and asking why people want it so badly in a non PvP oriented game.

[AphraelAmarantha]

Why do people feel the need to add pvp into everything that's not meant to be pvp? There a lot of games out there specifically are built around pvp, why insist on adding it into games that are primarily pve focused?

Seconded.

#KeepPVPOutOfMyMMOs

[Squintina]

Just as long as there are no PVE quests in it.

I played another MMO on a PVE server, and it had "PVP zones". At first I didn't care, I would just skip those zones and let the PVPers have their fun with other PVPers....
Then a bunch of PVE quests (main and side quests) ended up in these PVP zones and jerks would come up and kill me while I was questing.

But if it's a zone that has literally only PVP content (and maybe A/Shunts since other players can still do A/S hunts in the regular maps, but no Hunting bill marks and these zones can't show up in treasure maps), and away from new player areas so new people can't accidentally walk into it while they're still learning the ins-and-outs of the game, then it doesn't seem like an unreasonable suggestion.

I would probably avoid it like the plague, but just because I don't want to enjoy it, doesn't mean others won't.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

This game isn't set up for PvP

And yet they made it, and made it work before. In fact, the old system was a lot more balanced than the new system we have. Problem is people were so convinced PvP was bad, or the players were toxic, or that the system wasn't designed for PvP that they just accepted that idea without trying it themselves. Please be familiar with this before making such a statement.

And while I'm on the subject of erroneous statements, let me point something out: This game is "meant to be" whatever players want it to be. You wanted housing? They added housing. You wanted a marriage system, they added the Eternal Bond. You wanted a vanity system, you got Glamours. We wanted PvP, and they delivered. It's not perfect; it was never perfect, but neither was much of the PvE content initially either. To try to imply that the game "isn't meant for PvP" is limited thinking, and quite detrimental to the growth and prosperity of a multiplayer online game. Imagine if the devs thought that way with regards to the above mentioned additions? Ask yourself this before you declare what the game is "meant" for.

[uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu]

Argument PvP isn't meant to be in the game is same like any fiction writers aren't meant to write their own story version or there shouldn't be any guides, farming or learning PF. Neither are speed kills or world first races. Those things are decided by the players, not the game. There are arcade/book games where the only thing you do is fit the video game goals/numbers and watch a bunch pretty cutscenes. FF14 is a players game the moment they decided to make it multiplayer game, this is consequence for any multiplayer. Only difference between PvP and PvE is who set your numbers. It's purely yours on PvP. Really winning/losing, dying/killing.. those are just numbers you can adjust to your comfort level.

This is also PvP btw, or NvN :

Hopscotch

[Hyrist]

The point of this isn't about whether or not PvP wasn't meant to be in this game, but the point that objective-less PvP serves no purpose. And that's not 'our' perspective, it's the developers.

You can see the foundations of what SE is trying to build in every aspect of what it has for PvP and PVE content. For those citing the Dueling circle, you can see how popular that became by it's average activity. I'm sitting here right now, watching it be empty - and it serves as a michrochaem of what an open world PvP will be when the argument is 'what's a little harm with a bit of casual open world pvp?'

Of course the answer is 'nothing' but the addendum to that reply is 'It just doesn't have much value either.' It wasn't baked in from the start and there really isn't much more it offers compared to the much more efficient Frontlines - which has large zones allowing for freedom to take advantage of these zones to meet their various objectives, but their instance existence also assures there is going to be activity in them, provided the instance is filled (which is conditional for the zones themselves).

World PvP isn't my thing, so I am aware of my bias - but there is a lot of bias for those wanting to see this happen, and ignoring the calling signs of why it won't. SE will continue to expand on Frontlines to try to provide new and exciting takes on objective based PvP, because it believes in teamwork, not harassment. I'm welcome to be proven wrong - but by the actions of the developer, not the speculations of the hopeful.

Besides, there is a lot that can be improved upon in the existing PvP setup. I would like them to get that a little better at least before pushing for such a large undertaking as open world PvP and the balancing that will require. We've already seen how limited their development team is as far as capacity - that's aggravating enough as it is.