Tank dps harrasment

[Hyperia]

I wish they would just encrypt the data so FFLOGS would no longer work or any other parser for that matter. There being misused to the detriment of the community and need to go away. If the boss is dead, we are not and we got the encounter done, then that is all that matters. I could care less about your whatever parse...

[HyoMinPark]

I wish they would just encrypt the data so FFLOGS would no longer work or any other parser for that matter. There being misused to the detriment of the community and need to go away. If the boss is dead, we are not and we got the encounter done, then that is all that matters. I could care less about your whatever parse...

Literally the only people that use parsers to harass are the “tryhards”. Real Savage raiders don’t care about dungeon parses. A parser is an invaluable tool that I have used to help me personally grow, as well as help other groups, including my old static, progress through harder content by using the in-depth analysis that FFLogs provides. Don’t blame the tool just because a few twats decide to misuse it; it is incredibly invaluable to personal and group progression.

[Sylvina]

Literally the only people that use parsers to harass are the “tryhards”. Real Savage raiders don’t care about dungeon parses. A parser is an invaluable tool that I have used to help me personally grow, as well as help other groups, including my old static, progress through harder content by using the in-depth analysis that FFLogs provides. Don’t blame the tool just because a few twats decide to misuse it; it is incredibly invaluable to personal and group progression.

Yeah a parser is fine and even desired by many people as a personal improvement tool, but that's about the limit for how it should be used.

[Dualgunner]

I wish they would just encrypt the data so FFLOGS would no longer work or any other parser for that matter. There being misused to the detriment of the community and need to go away. If the boss is dead, we are not and we got the encounter done, then that is all that matters. I could care less about your whatever parse...

So you do care?

And I couldn't care less about your opinion that a tool should be disallowed because it's possible to misuse it.

[Miste]

I wish they would just encrypt the data so FFLOGS would no longer work or any other parser for that matter. There being misused to the detriment of the community and need to go away.

4 years of playing this game and all the toxic behavior I have seen in-game was nothing to do with parsers.

In my opinion if parser abuse was so commonplace where something needed to be done about it I feel I should have definitely seen some of it by now. I play way too darn much to have not seen anything by now if it was common.

Parsers are incredibly helpful for statics who wish to overall talk about improvement if it is needed to clear the content.

As for me personally I want to be able to see how I can improve and it is about me, not anyone else. I don't care about what others are doing I only care about my contribution and improving myself.

Why should we lose this tool over a possibly very very small % of people who abuse it? I mean would you ban all rulers from a high school just because one student used it to hit another student in the face? I doubt it...the kid would get reported and suspended and if it kept happening then eventually expelled. You get rid of the person abusing the tool, not the tool itself.

[Awha]

4 years of playing this game and all the toxic behavior I have seen in-game was nothing to do with parsers.

In my opinion if parser abuse was so commonplace where something needed to be done about it I feel I should have definitely seen some of it by now. I play way too darn much to have not seen anything by now if it was common.

Sad truth it is only common if you are bad, not much of a raider mostly play this game to craft, rp, and make fake monies. Though my friends that do 'try' to raid are horrible, I mean I cringe when they ask me to tank for them since I know it will be an ordeal. I cannot tell you how often I hear the whine in discord in or guild chat that people bash them for playing sub-par. Not defending or trying to excuse anything. Just saying that if it is not common for you or those around you does not mean it is any less of an issue for those players that are not up to the already fairly low bar.


Also if you guys see this you know I love you. :smirk:

[HyoMinPark]

Sad truth it is only common if you are bad, not much of a raider mostly play this game to craft, rp, and make fake monies. Though my friends that do 'try' to raid are horrible, I mean I cringe when they ask me to tank for them since I know it will be an ordeal. I cannot tell you how often I hear the whine in discord in or guild chat that people bash them for playing sub-par. Not defending or trying to excuse anything. Just saying that if it is not common for you or those around you does not mean it is any less of an issue for those players that are not up to the already fairly low bar.

While the experiences are all going to be anecdotal since no one has actually done any hard research that parsers increase toxic behavior, I have been in groups with some really subpar players (Ex primals and Savage; i.e., content where parsers and parsing actually matter), and I know there are more people than me parsing in there...yet no one ever says anything about them unless it’s something like a tank failing to hold hate, or a healer failing to heal, which are both things that you don’t need a parser to see. The most anyone says is after the bad player leaves, and it’s usually something like “Good riddance; they kept dying” or “Well, that works. They were only pulling 900~1,000 DPS as a BLM anyways”. Never have I seen people actively stand there and harass/berate a player to their face.

The “parser harassment” really does not occur as much as people like to claim it does, even to the “bad players”—the times it does occur, I feel like people blow them out of proportion, and start saying things like “I was harassed once in Expert Roulette over numbers, so parsers are bad and all they do is make people harass everyone all the time, and people that parse all need to be banned”.

I’ve seen once instance with a person saying something negative about an individual’s DPS numbers, and they weren’t doing so hot themselves. It happened in a Zurvan Ex bird farm (which, that fight already brought out the worst in everyone so), and a MCH was harassing a SMN about “missing 20 times” and “having crappy DPS”. And really, the only reason the individual’s numbers were bad was because they were lacking accuracy for the fight; other than that, their rotation was fine (according to my friend who was also there, and who was a SMN main). They certainly did more than a lot of other SMNs I had encountered in Heavensward (by this, I mean that they actually helped the healers raise dead players).

I’ve never seen people complain about numbers in dungeons. Closest I’ve seen is after a tank pulls a large pack, dies because the mobs aren’t dying fast enough, and after we respawn, they say something like “I’ll just do smaller pulls; not enough damage going out”—and again, that’s something you don’t even need a parser to see. It’s easy to tell when DPS aren’t AOEing packs down, not only from how long they’re taking to die, but from the fact that their TP is basically full the entire time. So, again, not really something you need a parser to see.

[Awha]

Snip . . .

You may feel like people blow it out of proportion when it does happen, and

Snip . . .

you may feel it is not a common thing because you do not see it.

These are both fair points, but for one I rarely saw toxic behavior in PvP does that make it any more of an issue to certain players? Probably not. That point aside let us say that harassment only happens to one player a month, in my honest opinion that is once too much. It is a great tool, I use to raid hardcore back in WoW pushing for world and server firsts, though I really have no desire nor commitment to enter a new raiding scene. I do understand the value the tool provides to further ones play. Still people do abuse it, and no matter how infrequent the two of you may feel it happens still does not chance the fact that said issues do happen to players, and for the players that it does happen to it is big issue that truly effects their enjoyment of the game.

Do I wish people had thicker skin and took things in stride? Yeah would make everything much easier, and we probably would still have chat enabled in PvP. Even so I am not going to pretend issues do not not happen because I rarely ever saw them. I willing to bet it happens often to my friends cause they are far below avenge, I mean one of them sicks in tank stance and only uses their enmity combo, and yeah you do not need a meter to see that people are under-preforming, the meter just adds insult to injury. The easiest fix would be to make fflogs opt in instead of opt out, or make it so the data shown on the site is only your personal data. It would not fix the core issue, but like how the pvp chat bad did not fix the so called toxic pvp community at the very least it provided the illusion of it. Which is all a lot of people need.

[Dualgunner]

That point aside let us say that harassment only happens to one player a month, in my honest opinion that is once too much.

I agree: one person harassed is one person too many. But it remains unfair to deny people a tool because someone will abuse it: there is not a single tool in the history of mankind that cannot be misused someway to the detriment of people. The same logic could be applied to these forums; to the game itself; to the entire internet. Not to mention, even in absence of parsers, harassment doesn't generally go down, it takes other forms.

[Awha]

I agree: one person harassed is one person too many. But it remains unfair to deny people a tool because someone will abuse it: there is not a single tool in the history of mankind that cannot be misused someway to the detriment of people. The same logic could be applied to these forums; to the game itself; to the entire internet. Not to mention, even in absence of parsers, harassment doesn't generally go down, it takes other forms.

Did not mean to infer that I wanted them to get rid of them, my post was mostly aimed towards people that feel it is either not common because they do not see it, or when it does happen people blow it out of proportion. Though to be fair SE pretty much did that to the PvP community, that aside they should do something to either inform FFlogs to make them opt in instead out or make it so the data shown is only personal. As I said in my other post it would not fix much of anything, but at the very least it would offer the illusion of protection from harassment