Tank dps harrasment

[Paladinleeds]

Welp

What I will say is, try to find a smaller more cozy FC. There's plenty big ones about that just care about the numbers because the more members they recruit and have in the FC doing stuff, the more FC points you'll get (which are then used to purchase things). Often times, the bigger FCs are very much about the numbers (I was an officer for one of those sorts of FCs, had ~200 members in it). Not all, but most. Smaller FCs (such as Fallen Arcadia on Odin), are very much like a family who will support you through all the things. One thing I will say is, while PUGs are very much business-like, don't be afraid to try and strike up some conversation. Most times, it'll go down well (some small talk like complementing someone's glamour can go a long way to making the run feel less business-like). You're on Sarg so I can't help, but hang in there.

[MeridaQ]

snip

I gave you a like because of your location information. xD

But yeah I would suggest joining an FC or getting a group of friends together for learning and clearing content. Not only is it typically a more supportive environment, but when working together as a group of friends/FC members those accomplishments create great bonds and understanding that helps tackle content in the future. I often set up groups for friends and FC members to teach new and old content. (If you were in my data center I would ask for you to come along) Once you have learned the content you are able to increase your DPS drastically something that is overlooked a bit in this whole thread. Which just means going with a group of people you know first is a great way to do content. Laughing and having fun learning the hard content is one of the best experiences I have in the game.

I think a big reason there has a "cold feel" is that people when learning/farming content think about themselves first, which is normal and nothing to be ashamed about. If you only have an hour to do something and someone is under performing they feel strained. (Such as: afking, not using aoes, not knowing mechanics etc) I personally don't mind if people are learning or not doing "good" DPS, if we have a whole lot of mobs I would just ask please use AOE's. (I have been yelled at for that when I say, "Hey can you please use AOE attacks on a bunch of mobs." I have also had people ask questions and learn). People want to get things done in the schedule they set for themselves and sometimes that doesn't line up with everyone else in the dungeon. Everything is based on perspective, if there is harassment report it. If there isn't keep doing you. xD Good luck with your learning parties I hope you have a great time making new friends.

[Taika]

This thread taught me when you're pugging, its all business first. Via a third party global parsing website of all things. I'd like to be parsed for sure. But I'd like to be parsed by the right people. Genuine people. People who won't sugarcoat but also won't shut you out from the start. That's pug business all right. I'd like to be parsed by people you know and want you to succeed at things, just as you want them too. Have a laugh at it too.

Pugs can't do that. And that's fine. But its a bit cold.

Based on my own pugging experiences, what you're describing here isn't an accurate description of pug raiding. I highly doubt it's a standard thing to check anyone's performance rating unless a person is joining extremely demanding content (my example from a while ago with OS4) or a group that specifically requires high performance. There are tons of casual progression groups available and for a big majority of even current raid content DPS simply doesn't matter much for the clear so no one cares. If you read the thread carefully, you notice people who are writing the horror stories aren't even basing them on their personal real experiences but something "they've heard in game from friends". I've been pugging current raids and extremes a lot and I have never seen a person get treated badly for their parse or FFlogs, and I've never seen anyone blindly excluded from a group. There are many other pug raiders who have said the same in this thread. I'm not saying PF is all butterflies and sunshine, and of course there are people with silly standards and bad behaviour out there, but from my experience those are more an exception than the norm.

[Awha]

Sad thing is I recall the pvp forums having fewer threads regarding toxic behavior, yet SE got involved. Prob rose tinted goggles.

[MeridaQ]

Sad thing is I recall the pvp forums having fewer threads regarding toxic behavior, yet SE got involved. Prob rose tinted goggles.

Are you asking for SE to change all dungeon and PF chat to the same communication systems as Pvp?

My guess is the reason they aren’t doing anything is because it isn’t as large of a problem people as people think it is.

[Awha]

Are you asking for SE to change all dungeon and PF chat to the same communication systems as Pvp?

My guess is the reason they aren’t doing anything is because it isn’t as large of a problem people as people think it is.

Not even sure SE can do much of anything expect maybe request FFlogs to make their site opt in instead of out or make it so the data is personal. Though SE is much smarter then I, pretty sure they can come up with something, lawl that chat ban did work wonders. ensive:

Kicker is people on the pvp forums said the same thing that it is not as wide spread as people made it out to be. Though many parallels can be drawn.

Memes aside people said the pvp community was toxic as fuck, and toxic behavior in pve is mostly happens in a vacuum. Though rip with the amount of threads and length of said threads equates to a vacuum. Though my honest guess is due the sample size of the pvp community at the time the number of reports compared to active players that pvp was properly fairly large. Given more people pve, the reports numbers would have to be huge for their metrics to show a problem. Since I had doubt those that make such decisions read each report more like just got an overview of negative reports tied to active players. So for a purely ratio point of view yeah toxic behavior in pve is not much of an issue, but I would love to see the data in number form since idk for some odd reason I feel as if the toxic behavior in pve has a tad more reports. Now I know most will say well duh more people pve thus larger number of reports will be made. That is why going based off the overall data is best, that would only be fair if both elements had similar player base.

Also given the smaller sample size you will more likely to run into the toxic handful in pvp, and most the time said toxic people were only pricks if they were losing. So if you happened to know what you were doing they were as kind as could be. So if a player is more likely to run into a player that is toxic you might be more inclined to report them. While in pve most of the time you can avoid the toxic people.

Still none of this means the harassment in pve is any less an issue. Though clearly most people do not see it that way. What makes harassment an issue is frequency for people I guess, which is sad.

[Fhaerron]

Not even sure what this thread is going about any more.

[Dualgunner]

You are not even answering the question or focusing the aspect that matters most. Frequency should not even be part of the equation, you still have not answered the question where do you draw the line

Reality is bringing frequency into the equation does undermine the issue since it has to be a wide spread issue for people to look at it and try to solve the issue beyond. People just got to be nice, and report to the a GM and move on. That is clearly not working.

I draw the line at never.

We're never going to have accurate data on parser / fflogs harassment numbers. And we can't have any action on hearsay from either side. We will never know what the current frequency is, and I have doubts even SE has accurate numbers.

Also pvp chat is just an example that Square actively interfering only creates more problems than it solves.

[Awha]

I draw the line at never.

We're never going to have accurate data on parser / fflogs harassment numbers. And we can't have any action on hearsay from either side. We will never know what the current frequency is, and I have doubts even SE has accurate numbers.

Also pvp chat is just an example that Square actively interfering only creates more problems than it solves.

All SE can do is react on harassment reports and punish harassers.

All we as players can do is speak up against harassment, remove harassing players from groups and send those reports.

This is certainly not an issue Miste can resolve so I don't understand why you keep demanding that from her.

Both of you are right, in case of PvP I do not like the changes, though I do see less topics being made about the toxic minatory in PvP. It still happens and it sucks we can no longer use chat, but it has been curbed, more likely it it was just a half measure to protect the willfully ignorant. Though I honestly do not have any data, but at the very least we have fewer threads regarding it.

Also not much anyone can do both of you are 100% just so happens when someone brings frequency into the equation when it comes to harassment, since really it should not play any part of the equation, no one is asking SE to make the impossible possible, but at the very least people do have to see how mentioning how infrequent it happens does sting a little to those that face said issues? Since for some it happens frequently, and that sucks. That is why it should not be part of the equation, since then it becomes about perspective.

I can realistic say no one is expecting a permanent fix, and I know the idea of requesting fflogs to be opt-in instead of out will not change much of anything, I do not have the intelligence required to figure out a viable solution that is more preventive in the sense that offers some form of protection that helps prevent the player from getting harnessed. Instead of a reactive one, since reactive measures only protect the player from future encounters with the person has already harassed them, offers no protection from future encounters from new people. Though those that have the intelligence to maybe come up with a stop gap will not look at the situation if we as a community try to equate how often a issue happens with relevance. That is why I feel trying to bring it into the equation is messed up, since for some it does happen frequently and the only protection SE has provided is report and ignore those that do it. Thing is for most of the people that this happens to it does not happen in bleeding edge content, just basic causal level content. Though at the very least if a person simply could not look up someones logs on FFlogs and they had to be given them at could act as a stop gap, and they just avoid that group when they request logs. As a last resort they could make it personal, and maybe FFlogs could add an option to sync the logs as a group if your static desires it.

I do not know just spit balling ideas, though if more people are brought to be aware of the issue maybe those that can find a decent solution will look into the issue, but until we stop trying to downplay how often it happens that will never be the case. That is why I am harping on the whole frequency aspect, overall I agree with her, just that tossing in frequency into the equation it in a way does downplay the issue, which in a way does silence those that may feel as if they do not have a voice. That is why frequency, should be part of it, and that is why I personal feel the system that protects these players should not be reactive.

I know there is no perfect system, I do not think anyone is asking for a perfect system just more options that help prevent it from happening even if it is only a little, and within reason. I do not think SE should remove chat, make enemies die in one hit, make everything a one button rotation or whatever far out example someone can come up with. We will never be done with harassment, but at the least we can try to offer some form of protection that does not request in them having to go through such abuse for it to be of use.

Deep down we probably all want the same thing, just sadly when it comes to issues of harassment how often it happens is one of the major factors taken into account before it is even looked at. That is why I say downplaying the whole thing does not serve to help anyone.

As I have said before silencing can also be diminishing the magnitude of an event, and not necessarily completely denying it. Which is what Miste and others are doing when they downplay the frequency. Which is not wrong since I understand for many it is a normalizing deviance, but still it sucks.

[akaneakki]

What's funny is I got skalla again on expert and I was warrior. I pulled first set without a healer because he dced, and I never died. I pulled second and third set which are larget set of adds, I didn't die. I solo'ed the boss too actually until a new healer came back. And there is healing required every 3 seconds? LOL. Please give me a break
Just another proof people who plays healers and say they have to heal every 3 second is a big liar.