Tank Stances, Traited

[Aana]

Tank stances was necesary for tanking on 2.x all the time, now are trash, even if you look at It as mere pull tools the desing is trash, the cost is stupidly high for just 10 seconds of emity and mitigation Who no one needs in 99% of the fight, its need yo be fixed to work as you say or as they intend desing but can't stay like now.

People have been dropping tank stance as much as possible since coil. We were sword oath tanking stuff regularly since second coil, cheesing tank busters with immunity forever. One could argue the only reason we didn't use it to the extreme in the early days was both avg skill level was lower (1st coil was much harder because the game was new, people still thought parry was good, etc. Just being bad at the game) and shirk/ninja didn't exist.

Shirk+Nin is the single thing that has done the most to reduce tank stance uptime. Even Drk who has zero enmity actions beyond their combo can pull and tank an entire fight without using power slash or grit once. If you really just HAVE to make people use more tank stance, make enmity a thing. Mitigation never really has except when we were new and sucked. Ninja+shirk, 30 sec recast on enmity jumps, etc have all reduced the need for tank stance.

But every time enmity is an actual task, tanks whine to high heaven about how hard it is to tank and the forums explode like the early days of SB, or a number of other weak enmity phases in the games history, and SE buffs the shit out of enmity again for the 20th time.

People don't actually want tanking to be a balancing act. They want it to be EZPZGG. As long as enmity is minimized, so will tank stance. So where are the threads to revive butchers and halone? They are tank skills that aren't used to tank just like stance, but at least stances have some potential to vary gameplay, express coordination and act as a safety net. Stances as a tool are less used than they used to be, but that still doesn't make them broken anymore than butchers block.

[shao32]

False, in 2.x we have real stance dancing, swaps was in tank stance always MT on dps stance was non-existent at excepción of phases where the Boss dont hit you, WAR loss everything if they drop defiance and our mitigation tools was limited, the only thing that exist those days was the str meta with tanks wearing hybrid or full builts.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Why does tank stance need to be 'sat in'?

Because you're misinterpreting the argument. No one is arguing tank stance should be sat in, but that it ought to have a purpose beyond opening aggro or dungeon mega pulls. Right now, you'll drop stance within the first thirty seconds and rarely even look at it again. When I tanked Creator, I did Overpower -> Equilibrium -> BB combo (no-Ninja) -> Deliverance. I never looked at Defiance again. The same happens with Omega though Neo may be a small exception due to Grand Cross x resetting aggro. Basically, the point people on that side are making is how tank stance sees very little use because nothing demands it.

[Ekimmak]

I'm sure that eventually, the devs will reach their limit with the meta and create bosses that will instantly drop all hate on tanks if they drop out of tank stance so people should enjoy it while it lasts.

[Azerhan]

I'm sure that eventually, the devs will reach their limit with the meta and create bosses that will instantly drop all hate on tanks if they drop out of tank stance so people should enjoy it while it lasts.

LMAO, is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO fun to play tank in tank stance... Like DRK, just for exemple.
If they do this, nobody will play tank anymore.

[Ekimmak]

LMAO, is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO fun to play tank in tank stance... Like DRK, just for exemple.
If they do this, nobody will play tank anymore.

Perhaps.

But I have a special sort of hatred for the DPS meta due to how bad it got during Zurvan Ex. So if they take steps to ensure you HAVE to stay in grit/defiance/shield oath, I won't shed any tears for it. I won't enjoy losing access to things like IR or blood weapon, but I won't kick up a huge fuss over it.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I'm sure that eventually, the devs will reach their limit with the meta and create bosses that will instantly drop all hate on tanks if they drop out of tank stance so people should enjoy it while it lasts.

They won't because it will inevitably prompt players to switch roles. Cleric stance was removed primarily due to people's perception on healers DPS in this game, i.e. you either learn how or you suck. There is no in between. The same mentality applies to tank stance. Arbitrarily forcing tank stance wouldn't accomplish anything except pissing people off. It either needs to be balanced and made more desirable through higher fluff damage (ala WoW's approach) or done away with entirely.

[PLitz]

If the devs were to make Tank Stances passive traits, then I hope that they would have the foresight to make enemies hit harder and aggro harder to manage. If not the role would become way too easy. Though doing that would also turn less skilled players away from the role. And I think that making fights necessitate tank stance would have a similar effect.

Really when you think about it, we're in a pretty good situation right now. Tank stance allows for flexibility in playstyle which is absolutely necessary for what is arguably the least played role.

[Shurrikhan]

Because you're misinterpreting the argument. No one is arguing tank stance should be sat in, but that it ought to have a purpose beyond opening aggro or dungeon mega pulls. Right now, you'll drop stance within the first thirty seconds and rarely even look at it again. When I tanked Creator, I did Overpower -> Equilibrium -> BB combo (no-Ninja) -> Deliverance. I never looked at Defiance again. The same happens with Omega though Neo may be a small exception due to Grand Cross x resetting aggro. Basically, the point people on that side are making is how tank stance sees very little use because nothing demands it.

This. E.g. We want to see the "other" button actually be an attractive choice across the whole fight. It shouldn't replace the lack of a tank stance as the most attractive choice, but it should at least feel like it has a reason for being on one's bar more than 10 seconds into a fight.

Perhaps.

But I have a special sort of hatred for the DPS meta due to how bad it got during Zurvan Ex. So if they take steps to ensure you HAVE to stay in grit/defiance/shield oath, I won't shed any tears for it. I won't enjoy losing access to things like IR or blood weapon, but I won't kick up a huge fuss over it.

And I have a special sort of hatred for gimmicks made at the cost of prior design, and designs which will try to excuse previous failures by breaking all other options. Which is what you suggested, spitball example or not.

And the thing is, that wouldn't "fix" the meta (optimization) either. It would just move it onto others, most frequently by removing the second tank from the equation via timed sacrifices (if you already have a NIN, why not put Shirk to use as more than just a enmity pad, after all?) and even more phase-pushing. Fix the stance, rather than just shifting viable choices from one side to the other through one-off gimmicks.

[Azerhan]

Perhaps.

But I have a special sort of hatred for the DPS meta due to how bad it got during Zurvan Ex. So if they take steps to ensure you HAVE to stay in grit/defiance/shield oath, I won't shed any tears for it. I won't enjoy losing access to things like IR or blood weapon, but I won't kick up a huge fuss over it.

I'd like to agree, but... If they want to do that kind of tanking in FF XIV, they need to rework tanks, because for now, I don't see where is the fun to tank. WAR in dps stance is fun. PLD don't change so much, and DRK is just... Boring to play - even in dps stance, but less than in tank stance.

But I would like a better tank playstyle for a new fight style.