Tank Stances, Traited

[TabrisOmbrelame]

or both should not have penalty, that's better than both of them having it

I agree, look at the Dps who got a +30% damage without penalty, quit not fair

[RuneSevalle]

No.

This would greatly oversimplify tanking, making it incredibly boring. The current dynamic of sacrificing offensive capability for defensive capability is a healthy one.

Now, do the numbers need to be tweaked? Perhaps, but this dynamic should remain--and meaningfully so (e.g. a 1% DPS loss for tank stance would not be meaningful).

Lol. Tanking is by no means all that difficult to grasp as it is now. Active mitigation designs for all 3 tanks would be ideal, rather than just cycling cooldowns. That's what tanking is right now:

1. Watch your position
2. Watch the threat while just sitting in DPS stance.
3. Cycle cooldowns.

That's it. There isn't some uber elite high-end strategy for tanking that only the best of the best will reach. It's literally just those 3 lil guidelines. The really high-end tanks spend very little time, and I mean very little, in tank stance already.

[shao32]

snip

tank stance is the focus, in ARR tank stances are well balanced on PLD and WAR, the limit amount of CDs and all what you loose was complety worthy of the price, tanking outside of tank stance was a unnecesary suicide and there you have to work a lot to get that small reward.

in HW all change, the penalty on WAR become extremly high plus WAR get huge buff in the mitigation field outside of defiance making defiance a complety low tier stance compared to the shiny deliverance, brain dead gameplay with low effort huge reward, PLD and DRK just have to imitate that style to even try to stay competitive.

so for me is just a awful desing, why? bcs is not reward me for good play, tanking out tank stance have no skill involved for you own part bcs i always optimize my CDs and resources, being able to tank in dps stance depends of you party, and if something happen with you party members the most punished its you if you have for turn it on specially if you are DRK.

You mean why isn't there more play between stances? Because it's not effective enough. This is due to both job design and raid design. We have so many tools at our disposal that tank stance has become a distant last resort that we're hardly ever pressured enough to call upon. That doesn't mean we should be granted permanent access to it, however; that's obviously not necessary

here is the point, you recognice tank stances are not effective and become our worst bullet, become necesary for tanking to a "safety net" a highly expensive "safety net" and thats is a insult for me, i will not argue if the pay off to tank outside of tank stance is just 5% o less of our dps, but now is more that a 30% and thats is unaceptable.

[Ironrocke]

My idea for Drk having higher mitigation is due to them not as many damage reduction cd as a Pld. Pld would go down to make more use of block cds somehow. And the rework for War were just some ideas, i know it would be broken.

[Ironrocke]

The center for my idea for tanking stances to be traited is that is what the classes do naturally before we reached lvl30, so let the natural order of things continue.

[Zfz]

I agree with the general idea of removing or revamping the tanking stances. Consider the AST stance, they make real differences. Now the best would obviously to build the tank jobs with good stance mechanisms, but failing that I wouldn't mind just removing stances.

For example Shield Oath could add damage reflection per hit/block/parry that is determined by the gauge value, and your crits proc a Shield Swipe and reset Shield Swipe recast time. Modifying the PLD combat to feel like you're a master of the shield. Sword oath could be a skillspeed focus where each block/parry give you a stack of skillspeed increase for 6 seconds and your auto-attack/weapon skill crits will make your next weapon skill crit.

Defiance could put up an 15m aura that reduces enemy's damage done by a percentage depending on your gauge value, and your crits on a target will cause splash damage to two other targets within 5m of the original target. Deliverance could be a crit focus where each crit gives you a stack of yet more crit for 6 seconds and at maximum stack your next weapon skill is guaranteed to crit but will clear the stack.

Grit could give all your weapon skills an HP drain component, and parry/dodges automatically cause riposte damage on the enemy and give you 100% HP back from the riposte damage. Darkside could give all your weapon skills an extra Darkside DoT effect on the target that will buff your damage and explode for a damage shield on you or something. And make Grit and Darkside mutually exclusive? I don't know, I actually don't exactly like how the DRK plays so I am really just making things up for the sake of having something for DRK now.

[jackass1203]

I agree, look at the Dps who got a +30% damage without penalty, quit not fair

I just need to check. Are you complaining that dps do more damage than tanks?

[Reynhart]

P.S.: Tank DPS at best should reach more than 2/3rd dps numbers.

I don't really follow current FFlogs, so I'll just talk from my assumption. I think 100%-DPS-stance-tank currently do too much damage when compared to pure DPS.
It you can benefit from the tank trait all the time, then your damage need to be lowered a bit as a trade-off...but then, doing solo content could be a real chore.

The problem with the tank stance is that its effect is too low, so you can afford to skip it significantly. If you want to remove stance dancing, (which is basically what would happend with tank traits), just make tank stance reduce damage by 50% (Or doubles WAR's HP/healing received) and increase single target and cleave damage from bosses, while not touching raidwide damage.

I really doubt tanks could afford taking twice the damage they're supposed to suffer in meaningful content. This way you can keep their damage high enough to kill things out of group content.

[Tzain]

Been a tank since 2.0 beta and I love the playstyle, but after reading so many post about tank DPS and just tanking in general I now want to throw my 2 cents in the pool with the suggestion that the tanking stances should just be adjusted and traited so that tanking would play like a pre-lvl30 tank, also no tank DPS stance. Adjustments made would remove damage penalties but make it so that tanks would still be defensive without losing our funk. Change I've thought of so far this this...

Paladin: Shield Oath(Trait):Reduces damage taken by 10%. Increases enmity from enmity generating skills/abilities.

The problem here is that without the ability to 'throttle' Rage of Halones enmity generation you'd end up with a lot of trouble in FATEs and Off Tanking since its the only combo. Royal Authority fixes this, but from 30-60 you'd have a hard time. So I'd suggest moving Royal Authority to be the level 30 skill. This gives a Damage combo for damage and an enmity combo for enmity without using Shield/Sword oath as a throttling method. In fact this utterly nullifies the need for Sword or Shield Oath since Enmity vs damage is handled by which combo string the player uses rather than the stance they are in and having a skill/stance/trait that gives a straight +defense is just boring and silly.

[Starkbeaumont]

i was thinking about a traited tank stance as well. but without the damage penalty since atm endgame is done mostly out of tank stance anyway. If SE thinks damage is too high they could always adjust potencies. for WAR just give them access to all their skills all the time (same for BP on DRK)
Sword oath and darkside should be traited as well.

and to not make it boring tanks could be given a mechanic which lowers incoming damage by performing in a certain way. right now tank stances are mostly a thing to discuss on the forums but by far not an interesting game mechanic