Built-in Parsers

[BigRed5392]

This doesn't sound like you saying everyone is accountable, this is you saying that a DPS is not accountable for their poor DPS/repeated deaths, and it is the healer's job to compensate. Have a reality check, healers are not gods and they cannot be expected to carry beyond what the content allows. The point is to work EQUALLY as a team, an underperforming DPS is not working as part of the team.

don't use the word carry, its pretty childish. again jp players don;t single out. I was using an example if a domino effect due to players choices.

if everyone makes bad choices the runs goes south. the run is a group effort, if healers are not healing, they are not being a team player. If tanks are not tanking they are not being a team player.

if dps the group is taking to much damage a healer shouldn't be dpsing they should be healing.


this is why i don't get the NA/english community. they act vindictive in df/pf groups. There is little to no dialog, lil to no leadership, lil to no assistent.

just in fighting with in groups using juvenile terms like "bads" and "carry" which come off pretty bad. :/

i just personally have a different view point, and yet rather then a discussion im told "you wrong, you want a carry, stop being bad"
yet im expect to hear hyperbole, and scenario people brought on themselves, because they like to name/shame ppl.

i played on tonberry for a good while, and endgame content over there has a much better environment. jp have a community set of standards people for the most part follow.

pf is for practice, df is for clears. after 3 wipes with no improvement the run is vote abandon, no kicking or anything. At the start of runs the leader will macro a strategy. And people follow it best they can. If 1 person messes up they try to recover. if they wipe they communicate what the possible issues are, no name/shame. And they discuss what they can do better. They try again. Most of the time, they win. but again if they loose, they discuss more to weed out the issues. again most of the time they will win. If not and they doe again its vote abandon. No one is called out.

this is how NA community does it from my experiences

you go into content expected to know what to do, no communication to the strategy. If a person messes up (possible not knowing the strat, or had a lil lag) they are told off and healer doesn't heal them to "teach them a lesson". The dps die as a result, which means no dps. Which domino to everyone dying. Which then people say stuff like wtf, stop dying, you suck, you bad. and kicking the possible "bad player". This type of environment goes against teamwork.

communicating strats goes a long way to help, letting people know exactly what is expected them. People can watch videos till their blue in the face, but that doesn't always help as each video uses a different strat, team comp. some mechanics get skipped so when it doesn't get skipped people panic.

I think we as a community should be more open for communication instead of saying childish buzz words. cut out the name and shaming, as that does nothing but bring the team down. i think we as a community should stop the forced skip mechanic, and actually learn the mechanics, which again goes a long way.

People like to blame 1 person for low dps simple because they die to a mechanic they can't do, so yes everyone is at fault. If you don't know how to handle a mechanic, how are you not also at fault?

Also i have yet done any content jp/na Primal/Aether where we died to enrage. Most deaths I see are from healers not healing.

This entire "anti-parser" crusade just makes no sense to me.

See, let's not pretend that players using 3rd party parsers is a very rare thing. Almost every single group(even in dungeons) has at least one person running a parser. So all that not having a built-in parser creates is a disadvantageous enviroment for ps4 players and PC players who can not run parsers since they can be kinda buggy at times(there is a friend of mine who can not get ACT to work no matter what).

Also, a couple of weeks ago I was on a O2s pug group and we had two 2~3% wipes in a roll for not meeting the enrage timer. I myself was running ACT and I could see that, although the group's damage was nothing too impressive there was a monk struggling to get past the 1.8k dps marker even without dying once. The group leader also was running a parser and stated that the monk was not doing his job and kicked him, then we pugged another dps and the boss was dead on the next try.

What I mean here is: without a parser we would have no way of knowing where the group's flaw was. And with no hints of how to correct it the group would just disband and 7 players would have to waste time looking for another group when they already were in an almost perfectly fine group.

I have said this, other people have said this, but let me put this here again: In wow parsers have been a thing for a very long time, and usually as long as one is not doing like 50% less than everyone else and the dps meters are being met no one actually talks shit about how the group dps is doing. Ofc it's a different thing if you are looking for a more serious group to clear mythic content, but for lfr/normal/late patch heroics? Never seen anyone say a thing unless in the cases I described above.

you handles that situation poor, you clearly state the group itself was not doing good, but shame 1 player, by just kicking them. Why not communicate with the player as to why damage was low? (which is not hard to tell w/o a parser) was he laging? at any point you could have did some communication as to why yall were wiping.

tbh it more looks like your group got "carried" by 1 dps. you just used the monk as a scapegoat. so the group is equally to blame if no communication happen. MMo have existed before the invent of parser and other addon. How did they beat endgame content?

like how did ff11 community do endgame?? most of the player base was on console. and yes content had enrage timers you can tell if people are slacking with out a parser. And tbh that is not the right way to use it, at any point you guys could have communicated, as as questions. Offer tips.

how can people get better if people like you shut them out? kick them out? don't communicate. so ya your group was equally at fault.

a;so, not everyone plays WoW I have for a lil and disliked it. my g/f played it and quit because the community was crude. She was called lazy and bad for looking for a guild, and each guild required a list of addons. She stated each time "i share this pc, my family said no downloading extra stuff" she got insult after insult, she never even got to group content, her max was 46 warlock. the the simple fact she wasn't able to DL addon, she was called lazy, bad, looking for a carry.

never assume people played WoW, never assume people plated an mmo where parser was a thing.

this isn't rare either, creators like WoWcrendor would joke about how bad the community is.

[Nezia]

snip

You assume lots of things and completely misinterprets others, or maybe you willingly assumes these things in order to better suit your agenda? Who knows.

1 - There was no shaming, the leader literaly said something like "Monk is not doing enough, gotta look for another dps.", which, you like it or not: Was a straight up fact!

2 - Who cares if he was lagging or something? I also have lag and some other issues at times, and guess how I handle it? I DON'T PLAY THE GAME. That's right, if I'm lagging or have visit at home or know that I'm probably gonna be requested to do something IRL in the next couple moments I simply do not play the game. I watch some video, draw something, read something. A pretty revolutionary idea eh?

3 - There was no "carrying", do you run a parser or check FFlogs? Probably not, or you would know that anyone can EASILY do 3.5k+ unless there is some mechanic that forces you to stop attacking for longs periods of time(like susanno trans phase). What happened was that we changed someone that was not even trying to play the game right, to someone who was actually doing fine, not an expert, not a world first material, simply someone who was doing fine like the rest of us.

4 - You ask how people can get better? That's easy, Dummies and normal version fight. Again if you did not interpret things in a way that better suit your agenda you would have noticed that if we got the boss down to 3% that means people knew the fight mechanics or else we would have a wipe much before that point. Even the monk guy was handling the mechanics just fine, he simply was not doing damage because he either did not know how or did not botter to try, if it was the first then the dummy is the better place for him, if it's the second then he should not be a group based game in the first place.

5 - Where in the world am I saying that I assume people played wow? I just used my experience with oh so scary and oppressors parsers in a game that has had parsers for 10+ years now.

On a last note, your history about your wife and wow is most likely a lie, yours or hers. If this history passed during Vanilla, then there were almost no addons and 95%+ of the players did not even know what addons were. If it was post vanilla then all <46 content is simply irrelevant and people simply would not ask her to have addons to run low level dungeons.

[Lambdafish]

stuff about the word carry

This gave me a chuckle, and you probably have a lot of pent up frustration towards the caricature of a player that you have assumed many of us to be. Let me explain to you what a carry is: it is a scenario where 7 people win a fight through sheer effort to compensate for a player who might as well have not been there. If this group beat the fight in this manner, then this 8th person won without adequate understanding of the fight.

Now about your accusations towards me, I do not use this word lightly and I do not use it as an abuse or harrassment angle, as you seem to imply that I do. Carrying is a thing that can and does happen in this game, that is a simple matter of fact. How we handle the scenario is where the treatment of players can be discussed, and let me just say: it is OK to remove someone from a group who is not at the standard of your current group. If 7 people are looking for a quick clear and have advertised a quick clear, then someone expecting 3 hours of learning/prog will be booted, that is ok.

Players being assholes is of course not ok, but I should not be expected to waste 3 hours of my time on someone who is unable to perform to anywhere near the same level as the rest of the group (to be clear, it is the groups responsibility to make it clear the expectation prior to the person joining).

I've given you the benefit of the doubt with this post, but other responses of yours suggest that you are either trolling, or you have some sort of vendetta against high level players.

[Khemorex]

this is why i don't get the NA/english community. they act vindictive in df/pf groups. There is little to no dialog, lil to no leadership, lil to no assistent.

just in fighting with in groups using juvenile terms like "bads" and "carry" which come off pretty bad. :/

you handles that situation poor, you clearly state the group itself was not doing good, but shame 1 player, by just kicking them. Why not communicate with the player as to why damage was low? (which is not hard to tell w/o a parser) was he laging? at any point you could have did some communication as to why yall were wiping.

The problem with that is that NA/EU community has an invidualistic culture.
We dont have the culture to each other that JP has.
And thats NA/EU community own fault to begin with , and no parser is gona fix that :P

People cant just accept that someone else is in lead and dosnt want an official parser (and that for a good reason, we seen here enough negative posts) they will keep hammering ur head until they get blue. They just cannot accept it.
(Not that im a sheep , but u know what i mean.)

[Shurrikhan]

The problem with that is that NA/EU community has an invidualistic culture.
We dont have the culture to each other that JP has.
And thats NA/EU community own fault to begin with , and no parser is gona fix that :P

We're still blowing up this generalization?

Granted, this too is anecdotal, but I've noticed no significant differences when queuing with JP players on my alts as compared to here with NA/EU players on my main. At most, there seem to be fewer vocal trolls, but just as many irate, stubborn, and collaborative individuals. Blame gets tossed plenty, and "carrying" comes up just as often.

I feel like many players who don't actually play with all groups romanticize this idea of the JP culture. It's different, sure. But it's not that different.