Built-in Parsers

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Can't believe this is still going. . .

It's not about what information it can or can't provide.
It's not about whether it will help or not.
It's not even about how it will allow bad people to do bad things, or not allow lazy players to be lazy.

Biggest reason we're not likely to get it is because the possibility of even a personal parser being reverse engineered and used as it was NOT intended. And that's straight from The Man himself. He knows who he's dealing with. Are we all likely to do that? No. But let's not act like it's neither impossible, nor wouldn't happen.

This isn't shortsightedness on SE's part. This is actually them looking ahead and preventing a bigger problem with a small fix.

. . .Wish they'd have done that with the Feast chat ban. . .

[akaneakki]

Can't believe this is still going. . .. . .Wish they'd have done that with the Feast chat ban. . .

The ironic part is you talk like you agree with him on EVERYTHING yet I've seen you disagree with some of his other statements on other topics. Many disagree with what he thinks about parser? I do so, he believe it's gonna break community down. FF14 community isn't all white knight as people claim it to be ya know. Plus a parser harrasment will be harrasment. Also this is also why people blindly get kicked these days, who's that to blame? The party leader? Hell no, it's the players fault for slacking in the first place. This is where the anti parser people comes in and say: Oh hey YOU HAVE TO carry them. No we don't :>

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Nah, everyone knows how I feel about the chat ban. I meant that in terms of "looking ahead to prevent a bigger problem with a small fix", though the Feast thing was, in fact, the opposite. A big fix for a small problem without thinking ahead to the bigger problems it created (and still didn't fix.)

I'm not saying anyone has to carry anyone at all. I'm really not even looking at all the what ifs or extreme cases. I mean, I've seen someone talk of leaving the instance because the healer (someone I know) "wasn't healing", yet they were both healing more and dealing more damage than the person saying that. I know this *because* of the parse they showed after the fact.

I'm hardly demonizing parsers at all. I'm quite neutral about them, given that I know the benefits of them, but I'm on PS4 and have never been at any serious loss these 4 years without it. Still, I can't deny if given the opportunity and means, someone, somewhere will do exactly what Yoshi P mentioned. Hell, people were trying to use Stone, Sky, Sea as a legit measurement for a time. (It's still funny.)

[Shurrikhan]

Biggest reason we're not likely to get it is because the possibility of even a personal parser being reverse engineered and used as it was NOT intended.

So, we figure out from a reverse engineered parser what a given abilities %AP and %WD contributions are? Wait, no, potency already standardizes that...

Our actual damage? ...That's shown on the screen and in our battle logs.

Damage rate? ...Can technically be calculated by hand via timestamps...

Our in-encounter crit rates? ...DoT ticks aside, that's in our battle logs and can be calculated by hand.

PPM? We use true RNG, not RPPM, so this is not estimable outside of the same information we get from our tooltips.

The actual effects of our secondary stats? We already have these spreadsheeted, and would transparency really be so abhorrent? (Also, even this has no reason to be revealed by a parser.)

I can see why SE wouldn't want to open up a slew of api's that third-party addons can then use to check for and report incoming attacks, etc., in what few ways they cannot already (e.g. from /say or /yell cues, though we already have the tech to do that, just no update), but a parser is just not the gateway for any of those.

Take a look at the breakdowns for WoW's own competition with its addons: different devices reveal distinctly different components. All that a parser can reveal, has already been revealed -- not even by third-party parsers, but by the game itself.

[Kacho_Nacho]

The ironic part is you talk like you agree with him on EVERYTHING yet I've seen you disagree with some of his other statements on other topics. Many disagree with what he thinks about parser? I do so, he believe it's gonna break community down. FF14 community isn't all white knight as people claim it to be ya know. Plus a parser harrasment will be harrasment. Also this is also why people blindly get kicked these days, who's that to blame? The party leader? Hell no, it's the players fault for slacking in the first place. This is where the anti parser people comes in and say: Oh hey YOU HAVE TO carry them. No we don't :>

Not sure why you think we anti-parsers are saying you have to carry slackers. We aren't.

Also, we all understand the FFXIV community isn't a bunch of saints. It's a case where people cannot agree if the benefits of having a parser outweigh the negative impact of having them on the game as a whole.

[MoroMurasaki]

Not sure why you think we anti-parsers are saying you have to carry slackers. We aren't.

Also, we all understand the FFXIV community isn't a bunch of saints. It's a case where people cannot agree if the benefits of having a parser outweigh the negative impact of having them on the game as a whole.

I feel like this (the carrying comment) is being implied by some people on the anti-parser side of things though. Specifically the idea that if a group fails something it is by default the entire group's fault.

There are certainly many ways that one person can wipe almost any given raid, whether intentional or not, and this mentality that just because I've been grouped up with someone who doesn't know/care/care to learn enough to clear a specific piece of content means I am responsible for their shortcomings is where at least some of this tension is coming from.

Let me be clear, I have said multiple times in this forum and on the healer forums that I play healers primarily because of their ability to carry a poor group/player through most content. I pride myself on being able to salvage things that otherwise would have been a death or wipe. I am not looking for parsers in an effort to kick tons of players from my groups. It would certainly allow myself (or any reasonably experienced player) more insight into what's going on, specifically in a situation where things are going south quickly, to be able to better advise our teammates on how they can help us fix it.

Would the answer sometimes be to kick someone? I'm sure it would, but if that turns a disband into a clear for the rest of us I am okay with it.

I feel like this has gone from a discussion on parsers to one on the general health and kindness of the community, on that front I think we do pretty well for ourselves. Are there some assholes? Sure. Most people want to help though. Keeling parsers out of the game out of fear someone might use them to be rude makes no more sense than removing party chat because someone might be rude there. Yes, sure, they might... but doesn't it do vastly more good than harm?

[TamiaBlack]

I've seen some games getting ruined by making parsers official. The community gets very toxic and ruins the game for people that don't play on a high level.

Even in contents, where damage is not really that neccessary and is not responsible for sucess, but only for time saving.

In my opinion the unofficial parsers are good, for static teams to make their progress. If someone is really slacking, you can notice it even without a parser.

So I do not really see positive effects of an public parser, only negatives. People get flamed or kicked for no reason, people stop having fun before they can even reach a good level and the community will get smaller.

Aside of Savage content, I see barely situations where DPS is the reason for a fail. The biggest issues are players that are too toxic, and mostly when they ragequit, the dungeon/Primae/Alliance works with the replacement.

If someone continously feels uncomfortable with public groups, he should stop it and go with premade groups. In a public group everyone should have the courage and character, to be patient and kind. And if neccessary leave it with a "won't work out, sorry and bye"

Anyhow, I would accept it, if a parser is only able to be turned on in premade groups or is only showing your own DPS.

[DaulBan]

I've seen some games getting ruined by making parsers official. The community gets very toxic and ruins the game for people that don't play on a high level.

If you don't mind me asking, which game was this?

[akaneakki]

I feel like this (the carrying comment) is being implied by some people on the anti-parser side of things though. Specifically the idea that if a group fails something it is by default the entire group's fault.

Yup this pretty much and also say it's fine to slack because ''it's just a game''. Look at my signature, the guy is asking why someone would wipe 10000 times over again and again when the purpose of a heavy PVE game wants you to CLEAR the stuff. Just because 1 dude finds it funny wiping all over again and again, doesn't mean its fun for everyone else. Do people honestly think it's fine to wipe an entire group over all the time, because 1 guy feel it's fine? It's not. You either play on the same level or nearly the same level or you simple aren't the person with the group.

[BigRed5392]

Can't believe this is still going. . .

It's not about what information it can or can't provide.
It's not about whether it will help or not.
It's not even about how it will allow bad people to do bad things, or not allow lazy players to be lazy.

Biggest reason we're not likely to get it is because the possibility of even a personal parser being reverse engineered and used as it was NOT intended. And that's straight from The Man himself. He knows who he's dealing with. Are we all likely to do that? No. But let's not act like it's neither impossible, nor wouldn't happen.

This isn't shortsightedness on SE's part. This is actually them looking ahead and preventing a bigger problem with a small fix.

. . .Wish they'd have done that with the Feast chat ban. . .

hell i even said that and all ppl want are links XD