Dear Tanks

[odie]

Tell me again how often Healers are getting blamed for everything?

I think it may be due to guilt. Deaths can be prevented in most cases by the healer, period. Although the reality is that Mana IS a finite resource. The healer may know that the dps just wasn't enough, or the tank just wasn't strong enough, but in the end I think most healers feel like to some degree they could have prevented it and then make it their fault. A lot of the times I've healed and we wiped, nothing was said. Just restart, cast protect, and pull again, though that pull may be smaller. No blame, no nothing, just silence. There is only one instance I can think of that I was blamed, and it was a massive pull, and one dps still chilling out at the start of the dungeon. I could not have kept that going on forever. I don't take that one personally, but others, you can't help but wonder if you could have kept them alive.

[ManuelBravo]

Problem is that healers don't communicate with tanks period. Some of us tanks will ask if big pulls are ok. Others just assume and make asses of them self's and healers. After a large pull wipe if a healer does NOT say anything we tanks take it as maybe he needed a warm up. If by the second wipe still happens I just take it easy. If they complain I always bring up the fact that they could not handle big pulls and I rather finish the run then get frustrated. If they complain they can always boot me and wait for another tank.

[Kazgrel]

Neat. I had a SAM whine at me last night in Skalla, saying "Could you chill with the big pulls? It makes it hard to focus."

Had to double check OP's server here to make sure they weren't that same SAM.

Oh, and that SAM that was whining to me? I did triple their damage through the entire run. They died 7 times.

Had I been accompanied with FC folks, such a silly request would've resulted in a vote to kick. DPS are a dime a dozen. Git gud or git out.

[odie]

Problem is that healers don't communicate with tanks period. Some of us tanks will ask if big pulls are ok. Others just assume and make asses of them self's and healers. After a large pull wipe if a healer does NOT say anything we tanks take it as maybe he needed a warm up.

I won't ever say anything unless the tank looks capable and does a small pull. I'll say "Pull as many as you're comfortable with." 9 times out of 10, tank pulls everything to the gate. If we wipe and I don't say anything, its because I'm confident in a second attempt. If we wipe, I usually am aware of what caused it, and if it's something within my control. Such as I fumbled on the crossbar and hit something that I didn't mean to resulting in death, or I've been healing and the tank isn't receiving it because my dumbass was targeting myself or a dps. lol. I think if there is no communication, then assumptions should be expected. And the norm seems to be big pulls. I think that by now the playerbase should expect this to be the start and say something before they get frustrated.

I go into a lot of this content undergeared and I think the tank is taking it into consideration when doing the small pulls, but I feel confident enough to power through it.

[ManuelBravo]

I won't ever say anything unless the tank looks capable and does a small pull. I'll say "Pull as many as you're comfortable with." 9 times out of 10, tank pulls everything to the gate. If we wipe and I don't say anything, its because I'm confident in a second attempt. If we wipe, I usually am aware of what caused it, and if it's something within my control. Such as I fumbled on the crossbar and hit something that I didn't mean to resulting in death, or I've been healing and the tank isn't receiving it because my dumbass was targeting myself or a dps. lol. I think if there is no communication, then assumptions should be expected. And the norm seems to be big pulls. I think that by now the playerbase should expect this to be the start and say something before they get frustrated.

I go into a lot of this content undergeared and I think the tank is taking it into consideration when doing the small pulls, but I feel confident enough to power through it.

True there are some people who THINK they can tank. Common sense is dead and for the most part seems vets forget about common sense as well. Then again there are some people who also THINK they can heal. and really can't valance their casting, position, and are even under geared.

[RokkuEkkusu]

My two cents on this:

I tend to pull big in most of my dungeon runs. Pretty much the norm with the average group in end-game dungeons.

However, I pull small if the following occurs:

1. There are new people in the instance. DPS output while dodging aoes and following mechanics are most iffy as the new members learn the instance.

2. My teammates or myself and not as geared for bigger pulls. The better the gear, the more effective the pulls can be. A team effort of managing defensive cooldowns, timing of healing, and use of aoe attacks are keys to faster dungeon runs.

3. Most of my teammates request that I pull small because they might not be able to handle bigger pulls for whatever reason.

TLDR version: Everyone's mileage may vary in the end.

[Xeon]

LOL if you're complaining now, you'd really have been complaining when brayflox hard first come out. It took skill to do large pulls there. Dungeons now are infinately more easy to do that with now than they were back then. If your party couldnt do large pulls, then it wasn't necessarily just tha tanks fault, or even, for that matter. Usually it's because your party just sucked, so do us all a favor and quit blaming the tank when you probably were the reason that the pull failed. It's not the tanks fault if you suck. Sorry.

[Dejavu56]

I am a simple man,
when I met a full-pull tank(and stay alive),
I give commendation.

[Aster_E]

As a tank who doesn't mind medium or large pulls, I have to agree with the majority of people here. Same as a healer who contends with these pulls regularly (and gets really bored otherwise).

With Skalla, when I'm tanking, I generally test the first two groups of somewhat big mobs, because my Drk is only i321 at the moment. If I like what I see with the healer and DPS then I'll grab the next two groups of small mobs plus that ray. If I were just a bit more geared, I'd include the third group of small trash mobs before the boss during that same pull. That's just my way of it, for now, and I don't begrudge tanks who go all the way.

You shouldn't either. No one should. It's part of the game we all learned to play, and oh so many of us enjoy.

[winsock]

Some of us tanks will ask if big pulls are ok. Others just assume and make asses of them self's and healers.
...
If they complain I always bring up the fact that they could not handle big pulls and I rather finish the run then get frustrated.

Asking a healer if big pulls are okay just pins the responsibility of making those assumptions on the healer (which sucks because the tank is in a much better position to be determining the pull size). Ex: healer answers "yes" assuming the tank knows how to pull, tank only thinks they know how to pull big, tank blames healer for a wipe the tank caused.

Tanks should just assume and go. Assume your WHM is capable of roughly cure 2 spam, make a pull based on that, then adjust accordingly. Most of the time, this assumption won't impact your runtime. Most healers can spam a button, and cure II spam is usually enough for the dungeon's initial wall-to-wall pull.