Built-in Parsers

[akaneakki]

"As far as your comment goes though, where in my comment am I saying players should be told they are doing great when their numbers don't even meet the "requirement" to clear?

I replaced your text with ''no'' because I had a limit to post and it was replying to your whole post.
And also no you havent, but I simply tell you what others have told you and I agree with them. I will say it again, bad players are breeding faster the more people with ''it's fine to be 2k lower dps than the rest, it's just a game'' What about people come home from 8 hours work, do other stuff for family or do hobbies then come back home to play, then suddenly some dude decides to play on a troll level and keeps wiping or enraging boss because he/she can't seem to do the requirement for the boss? I honestly think it's unfair. Go ahead and say it's just a game. Time however isn't just a ''game'' people can play this game on a strict schelude too, don't think it's only about that guy who can't seem to pull it off.

The "check" is when you clear the content. A parse is used to blame others. It's the same story in every MMO, from the start of MMOs.

So whos fault is when 3 dps does 4.5k dps and 1 does 2.5k?
The parser tells people who can't meet the check, how else are we going to find out? Just blindly accuse people? The ''blame'' you speak off, isn't really blaming. It's telling them they aren't meeting the check. You are legit saying it's fine for people to keep wiping others.

[SDaemon]

I replaced your text with ''no'' because I had a limit to post and it was replying to your whole post.
And also no you havent, but I simply tell you what others have told you and I agree with them. I will say it again, bad players are breeding faster the more people with ''it's fine to be 2k lower dps than the rest, it's just a game'' What about people come home from 8 hours work, do other stuff for family or do hobbies then come back home to play, then suddenly some dude decides to play on a troll level and keeps wiping or enraging boss because he/she can't seem to do the requirement for the boss? I honestly think it's unfair. Go ahead and say it's just a game. Time however isn't just a ''game'' people can play this game on a strict schelude too, don't think it's only about that guy who can't seem to pull it off.

If someone is 2k lower dps than the rest and the content is cleared where is the issue? I could understand if in your static that person was consistently 2k below with no signs of trying to improve. But like in the original comment if that person was 2k lower but their DPS was enough (raid dps requirement split evenly among the dps, along with tank rotations)to make the enrage but the enrage was still hit, why kick them? why replace them when clearly it wasn't the issue. An actual static would evaluate the situation, a PF group I don't see doing that, they would simply kick the lowest DPS and look for another.

[akaneakki]

If someone is 2k lower dps than the rest and the content is cleared where is the issue?

I've said it before and I'll say it again. 98% of the content can be cleared with 1 less man in a group. For example 7 can clear 8 man content. Does it mean it's fine? Now imagine you had those 3 dps on pair with that 2k lower dps person, would you clear it? No. If everyone had the mentality of yours, none of the badies would even get a clear. Let's get real.

Let me ask you this, 3 dps is as low as that person whos doing 2k less than everyone else, would you clear it? Yes or no. Then you explain to me why.

[SDaemon]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. 98% of the content can be cleared with 1 less man in a group. For example 7 can clear 8 man content. Does it mean it's fine? Now imagine you had those 3 dps on pair with that 2k lower dps person, would you clear it? No. If everyone had the mentality of yours, none of the badies would even get a clear. Let's get real.

Let me ask you this, 3 dps is as low as that person whos doing 2k less than everyone else, would you clear it? Yes or no. Then you explain to me why.

Yes, they would. If all 4 DPS had the same DPS as the person in question they would clear. That is the entire basis of my comment. If all 4 players had the same DPS they would make the DPS checks. It just so happens that 3 of them are performing better DPS wise. If you need (using low numbers) 1000 from A, 1000 from B, 1000 from C and 1000 from D to clear and you have 2100 from A, 2050 from B, 1900 from C and 1100 from D you should clear it. Is D underperforming DPS wise compared to the rest of the group? Absolutely. Are they doing more than the required DPS? Yes. Should they improve? Certainly. However, if they hit enrage clearly it isn't because of the DPS. Maybe people are dying? Maybe someone is messing up a mechanic too many times? Not the point. Now in a static yes you would ask that 1100 to improve, of course, but you would see what is causing the enrage because everyone is decent if not well above the DPS requirements. I don't see a PF group doing that. They'd simply kick the low DPS and replace them.

And I'm being told people in here would too, simply because they feel that 1100 isn't doing their fair share, which I don't agree with at all. If all DPS needed to be 3000 and he was only doing 1100 so the rest had to do exponentially more, then yes I would absolutely consider that 1100 being carried and should leave that group without delay.

[akaneakki]

Yes, they would. If all 4 DPS had the same DPS as the person in question they would clear.

They wouldn't if dps requirement would be lets say 5k each dps, or slightly lower, this is without healer dps and tanks doing a lot. Then last dps is at 2.5k dps or 3k. They could do it if both healers did 1k dps. But you know how the community works, dps healers = nothx. Tanks are tanks so spam aggro combo. If all 4 had 5k dps it been a easily clear, but lets wrap it around and say all 4 of them had 2.5k dps, would they clear? Nope.

[SDaemon]

They wouldn't if dps requirement would be lets say 5k each dps, or slightly lower, this is without healer dps and tanks doing a lot. Then last dps is at 2.5k dps or 3k. They could do it if both healers did 1k dps. But you know how the community works, dps healers = nothx. Tanks are tanks so spam aggro combo. If all 4 had 5k dps it been a easily clear, but lets wrap it around and say all 4 of them had 2.5k dps, would they clear? Nope.

Yes, if the DPS requirement is 5k personal DPS from each of the 4 DPS and someone isn't hitting that then yes they are underperforming and either need to improve or leave the group. Could the healers make up for it? Yes, but I would consider that being carried since the DPS isn't doing at least their share of the work.

And yes, your second example none would clear as none of them are meeting even the minimum DPS requirement. I can agree with you there, even though that is far from the situation I was arguing.

[akaneakki]

And yes, your second example none would clear as none of them are meeting even the minimum DPS requirement. I can agree with you there, even though that is far from the situation I was arguing.

I know, but I'm saying there are MANY scenarios where this is the truth. Example, I was told in susano NOT to hit the sword as a tank, my job was to pick up the balls. I did but without me hitting the sword, it would kill us. And I'm well aware as my job as tank there. What I didn't like and I also find amusing is that the healer kept telling me to pick up the balls when I already did it plus doing 5 gcds on it. Littl did he know I was second dps as tank and we barely killed the sword. 2 months ago my static wanted to try ilvl 270 susano kill and we killed the sword. Isn't it a bit shame a group at current ilvl struggle?

[MoroMurasaki]

And I'm being told people in here would too, simply because they feel that 1100 isn't doing their fair share, which I don't agree with at all. If all DPS needed to be 3000 and he was only doing 1100 so the rest had to do exponentially more, then yes I would absolutely consider that 1100 being carried and should leave that group without delay.

I find this whole train of thought inherently distressing based on the idea of skipping mechanics.

The most recent, simple example of this I can think of is Susano EX. As the fight goes on longer he throws worse and worse combos at you. I was doing it with a combo of FC members and pugs at the time and invariably people would have trouble with the whirlpool>churning>whirlpool sequence that happens toward the end.

It got so bad we were inviting our pf members to our discord for callouts so that we could not wipe to that specific mechanic, especially because even if my cohealer and I lived through it if we lost 3/4 DPS to it and had no mp for rezzes we just couldn't get everyone back up in time.

Know what the answer was? More DPS so we never saw that set of mechanics. One FC member swapped from mnk to BLM for mana shift duty, my cohealer took the brunt of the healing on AST and I focused on DPS as WHM.

So no, if one of our DPS's did technically enough to beat enrage that doesn't secure a clear necessarily and in a farm situation specifically you are going to want to skip nasty mechanics when you can to minimize three chance of a wipe.

Basically "the best defense is a good offense".

[SDaemon]

I find this whole train of thought inherently distressing based on the idea of skipping mechanics.

The most recent, simple example of this I can think of is Susano EX. As the fight goes on longer he throws worse and worse combos at you. I was doing it with a combo of FC members and pugs at the time and invariably people would have trouble with the whirlpool>churning>whirlpool sequence that happens toward the end.

It got so bad we were inviting our pf members to our discord for callouts so that we could not wipe to that specific mechanic, especially because even if my cohealer and I lived through it if we lost 3/4 DPS to it and had no mp for rezzes we just couldn't get everyone back up in time.

Know what the answer was? More DPS so we never saw that set of mechanics. One FC member swapped from mnk to BLM for mana shift duty, my cohealer took the brunt of the healing on AST and I focused on DPS as WHM.

So no, if one of our DPS's did technically enough to beat enrage that doesn't secure a clear necessarily and in a farm situation specifically you are going to want to skip nasty mechanics when you can to minimize three chance of a wipe.

Basically "the best defense is a good offense".

If your group handled the mechanics correctly, yes you would have cleared, so long as each DPS member was doing the amount of DPS required to clear the fight. In your situation, you needed higher than necessary DPS to brute force your way through the fight. I have no issue with this if it is advertised as such, such as all those PF parties of the past that advertised them as "Skipping Soar". If that is what the group is setting out to do more power to them, and players go in knowing they need to push higher than normal numbers.