Built-in Parsers

[DeaconMoore]

If any one of those is a no, then wherein lies the disadvantage that prevents you from doing it? I can say that if any one of those were a no for me, or for console players universally, I'd likely be the loudest complaint.

For me the answers to your question are all yes.

I have a question for you though, lets say we have 2 groups of players trying to clear a fight. The first group of players is a bunch of PC players with parsers. The second group of players is a bunch of Playstation players without parsers. Which group is better able to determine where the groups performance issues are?

[MoroMurasaki]

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We are now arguing about the size of the disadvantage we both have to deal with as PS4 players while you still can't or won't acknowledge that a disadvantage exists. I will respond this one last time, at this point you seem to understand exactly what I'm saying but you're just sticking to this narrative because you've dug your hole too deep.

Lets say we have 3 months to clear a piece of content before it starts taking nerfs. We have two midcore players, more or less identical, except one parses and one doesn't. Who clears first? Who gets that content on farm first? Who gains a more indepth understanding of the fight and it's mechanics first?

Doing things faster leaves you more time. More time to do those same things more or to do other things. More things generally means more rewards whether that's gear/tokens/tomestones/exp/whatever.

I am done going back and forth with you on this. I feel you're being deliberately obtuse and I don't understand why. I feel like anyone with the tiniest bit of common sense could and would understand this so whether it's your choice or not I won't bang my head against a wall any longer. I hope you apply logic to this some time soon and stop feeding ammo to the people arguing against your better interests.

[akaneakki]

I?

Out of topic, I've seen some of your videos and they can be funny

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

It stands to reason the only people here arguing against my "better interests" are the ones who just unilaterally are saying no to parsers.

Now then, while you don't care to go back and forth on it (side note: same here), it's worth noting that - in a bubble - having a parser isn't going to help you learn a fight's mechanics faster (ACT callouts notwithstanding). It WILL help in identifying any issues with performance and I have not, nor will not dispute that. But I'd call it pretty hollow reasoning to claim someone's going to clear a fight first (from a mechanical standpoint) because they parse. If so, why do people die to things even with ACT callouts?

Yes, "people make mistakes". But people are also fully capable of learning HOW to clear a fight without callouts or a tool that helps measure performance. Again, how else would I or any "disadvantaged" console player have accomplished anything without all this time? Please note, again, this is NOT me saying "No parsers! Everything's fine! Console players can do anything!" I am very much saying we aren't inept and incapable of learning or playing without. That's it. That's really it right there. Not who learns faster, not who can clear quicker or more smoothly; my issues with the "disadvantage" begins and ends with the base idea of "can you do it?"

And we can.

[Deithwen]

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Just a few questions, do you believe that the World First group currently on undending coil don't need a parser ?
Do you believe that of all the players that killed O4S ( or any previous raids) didn't parse themselves at least at some point to improve their rotation or gameplay ?

Do you believe it's actually reasonable to say you can reach 100% of your job capabilities without any parser ? and thus clearing the content that requires that level of mastery ?

[MoroMurasaki]

...

Being able to clear something that someone else is able to clear is not the same as being on a level playing field. A group not using food or pot buffs might be able to clear the same content as a group who does use them but objectively the group using all the tools at tgeir disposal has an advantage over the group who does not.

You are mistaking equality of outcome (clearing a particular instance) with equality of opportunity (having the same tools available to use as anyone else with the same goal as you) and these things are not the same.

I said at the beginning of this exchange that it seemed as if you didn't understand what the word disadvantage meant. After this all I feel like that is still the core issue here. You could argue that not having parsers does not cripple PS4 players, you could back up that argument by finding a group of players clearing Savage content with absolutely no parsers involved but what you can't argue is the objective fact that walking into any situation with tons of less information than you could have is disadvantageous. If you want to try to simplify this into something that suits your narrative all you have to do is ignore all of what I've said and also basic definitions of words that elementary school children understand.

Recently GW2, As soon as parsers went allowed officially people startet to get Toxic. More toxic then it was before Got kicked for example with just 10%-15% DPS below Meta, and the bosses are even doable with 25%-35% below Meta.

Don't remember if it was oficially supported, but felt so, WoW, Raidgroups and people in dungeons got very toxic really fast. Classic was way more relaxed.

In Statics, Parsers are no issue, because you shgould find a static that meets your gamestyle. I would never join a Harcore Raid group. I'm just not good enough for it. But in the Midcore where I'm in we get our kills too. It just needs a bit longer. The problems start if people start flaming in Random Content.

Antecdotal and easily dismissed. Please bring something other than " in this other game someone was mean to me!" to the table if you're trying to make a point, the problem is your opinion isn't worth any more than another GW2 player saying it isn't toxic which, if I'm not mistaken, has already happened.

Anti parser crowd I'm still waiting for any factual argument against official parsers - not that there is one but let's see what you've got.

[Khemorex]

Antecdotal and easily dismissed. Please bring something other than " in this other game someone was mean to me!" to the table if you're trying to make a point, the problem is your opinion isn't worth any more than another GW2 player saying it isn't toxic which, if I'm not mistaken, has already happened.

Anti parser crowd I'm still waiting for any factual argument against official parsers - not that there is one but let's see what you've got.

Im still waiting for your scientific report where it says that people can handle a tool responsible without being a douche bag :P

[DeaconMoore]

Im still waiting for your scientific report where it says that people can handle a tool responsible without being a douche bag :P

People are people. You're going to encounter random jerks at times when doing a group with random people. I would hope however, you are capable of making some friends that aren't "douche bags" to run some content with.

[SDaemon]

Im still waiting for your scientific report where it says that people can handle a tool responsible without being a douche bag :P

Seeing as neither side of this issue has any sort of statistical backing to whether or not a parser will or will not improve a, or degrade b, or cause c etc etc. The line of argument is kind of pointless.

[Ilan]

Im still waiting for your scientific report where it says that people can handle a tool responsible without being a douche bag :P

Still waiting for the scientific report where it says that parsers make the community more toxic. If someone wants to be a dick he/she doesn't need a parser.