Built-in Parsers

[DeaconMoore]

Okay. If you are willingly going to be close-minded then there's nothing more I can say to you. As for your question about "feeling the need," there is no need for anything. It is purely a desire. One can never argue about the need for a parser the same way one can't argue there is a need for housing. It is optional, and ultimately only a desire.

Everything you have stated is purely opinion, so please stop stating it as fact. "You should," "my own experiences," "confirm what you should already know," etc. All of these are 100% subjective and personal statements. There is nothing factual or even objective there. I do not need to justify myself to you and simultaneously my experiences are, quite clearly, completely different from yours.

Group parsers are not for "absolutely" making judgments, however, in your mind, they absolutely are.

Go play WoW. Get a damage meter & deadly boss mods. Fight a raid boss with no addons. Fight a raid boss only using the damage meter a few times. Fight a different raid boss with deadly boss mods. I guarantee you'll do better on the boss with deadly boss mods than you do on the bosses without.

I'm not being closed minded, I'm just pointing out you would benefit from something like deadly boss mods. For you in your example, the parser is just patting you on the back. And I say this because every time you run a fight you should improve because you are learning from your mistakes during the previous fights. Practice makes perfect as they say. Deadly boss mods gives you a heads up on mechanics so you can better avoid making mistakes. A parser doesn't do this.

And I'm sorry, but you're just being naive if you think you aren't being judged on your parses.

[Disappoint]

Anyone telling you that parsers in their experience was only ever a smooth experience is either lying or didn't play that much of the game with parsers...

...So, sorry, but yes, group parsers in fights are absolutely for making judgments.

I disagree, meters can be of use for the right reasons. When Legion launched I and many other outlaw rogues made use of simulations and meters to determine which buffs the RNG buff mechanic our class is based around are optimal for DPS. Further, it was determined when its appropriate to reroll and when a dice roll is good enough to hang onto. Experimentation and self-improvement are two major positives meters provide. Are they worth the negativity that idiots will use them for? On my part, no, but that's subjective.

[Oscura]

Go play WoW. Get a damage meter & deadly boss mods. Fight a raid boss with no addons. Fight a raid boss only using the damage meter a few times. Fight a different raid boss with deadly boss mods. I guarantee you'll do better on the boss with deadly boss mods than you do on the bosses without.

I'm not being closed minded, I'm just pointing out you would benefit from something like deadly boss mods. For you in your example, the parser is just patting you on the back. And I say this because every time you run a fight you should improve because you are learning from your mistakes during the previous fights. Practice makes perfect as they say. Deadly boss mods gives you a heads up on mechanics so you can better avoid making mistakes. A parser doesn't do this.

And I'm sorry, but you're just being naive if you think you aren't being judged on your parses.

You are now just repeating yourself and bringing up deadly boss mods, something that is completely irrelevant to the discussion of parsers and ultimately has no meaning to me because I do not need it. I don't need a crutch and I certainly don't need something to tell me how the fight works.

Also, I'm not being naive, as I never once stated I'm not being judged on my parses. I specifically said that it is, and I repeat, not "absolutely" for making judgments. Which it is not. I will continue to repeat that, because it is 100% true. Even so, to be incredibly curt about it, most of the players in this game are god awful, so I quite honestly don't care who wants to "judge." I didn't and don't even need a parser to tell me that either. I just keep to myself otherwise.

[Kacho_Nacho]

Welcome to Earth, where 0.0000001%(or less) of people can understand others have different points of view(not saying you don't...but you know, most people think everyone HAS to think exactly like them).

Absolutely not true. Most people understand that other people have different points of views. Granted, there are fanatics who insist everyone has to believe the same as them but they are in the minority.

[xJimmehx]

I honestly don't understand the naoki yoshida mindset. The man must be from mars or something. (seriously, i wonder what he's thinking) We have parsers, with or without his consent, on pc. It isn't something he can control and they basically allow it as long as you don't talk about it or harass others. Why wouldn't it be better to allow console players to do it too? Especially if they keep the "no harassment" stance.

It's currently both a way for the pc players who "want" to abuse others with it to abuse it AND a way for more kind pc players to have an advantage over anyone on console. It's twice as bad.
Console and pc players alike are getting kicked because of it AND console players cant use it, when we pc players can.

....

Is it really this complicated?

Hell, People can kick you for having a "gay looking glamour", dying once or even for being a cat boy(so long as they label it differing play styles). Why don't they just idk...actually moderate the game? Pvp is full of bots and hacking. Gil bots teleport hack 24/7. Feast chat was completely removed. You know youre greedy when you start removing the components that make up a game just so you don't have to spend a tiny fraction of your million(plus some change) monthly subs to hire people that moderate and enforce the tos and general behavioral policies.

[ElazulHP]

I'm of two minds on this. On one hand I really don't want to see people harassed just because they are not that good at the game. That is the kind of thing that creates a toxic environment and drives away players. Then on the other hand I want to be able to see my own numbers and the numbers of my team so we can improve where needed. In the end I think the current approach of "Don't ask, don't tell" is probably for the best right now. This is just my opinion though.

[Claviusnex]

After the Shirogane patch first came out I was a few days late to doing one of the new dungeons. Ended up in there with a healer that hadn't done the dungeon either. Was trying to adjust to SMN changes on top of trying to REMEMBER dungeon mechanics from the video I watched prior to entering. I ended up raising the healer on several occasions along with other party members. The tank got really nasty with me and asked me why I wasn't doing enough DPS cause they were parsing. I legit haven't been in a dungeon since. Very demotivating.

This a good argument for my belief that any in game parsing should be at the individual player level. During my early years in that other game I used recount and skada after I learned about them from some other players. They helped me learn where I was having problems and get to a point I could hold my own. However I only used them for myself or with members of my family and friend guild. I also saw them used in PUGs as a means to grief or scapegoat people which I would not want to see here. The problem is to is too easy for people to take the low road in PUGs with fully sanctioned parsing. I think the only reason it hasn't gone that way in FFXIV is SE's saying it is against the TOS but only taking action if it is abused. As to how to handle the more serious players and statics, what's wrong with the current method or using an external site to aggregate the data? It seems to me the methods are there to accommodate the current player base without the toxicity that the other game has in relation to parsers.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

For you then I have to ask why you really feel the need for a parser in the fight? You should know intuitively when you mess up during the fight. I know from my own experiences for example my dps just went in the crapper after I popped my burst cooldowns and then am forced to immediately run or die. A parser isn't needed for that. Something like deadly boss mods that can give you timers and warnings about fight phase changes is what will really help you plan your ability usage and maximize your dps in the fight. All the parser would do for you is confirm what you should already know. Is this absolutely something that you need?

So, sorry, but yes, group parsers in fights are absolutely for making judgments.

This is a poor example. Of course you'll know when you mess up an intrinsic part of your rotation, especially if it results in a death.. What a parse does is show the numerical effect on smaller mistakes or what part of your rotation is worth sacrificing if a mechanic comes up. "Should I use Battle Litany here or time it with raid buffs?" "Will Chaos Thrust last or would double Full Thrust be better?"

And yes, it judges other players based on their numbers. I fail to see the negative when used properly. Per my example a few pages back, Mr. Rockbreaker Monk basically contributed 50% less than his role should, forcing the other players to pick up her slack. This inherently makes deaths potentially more difficult to recover. Why shouldn't players who are woefully underperforming be "called out"? It doesn't need to be aggressively, but I'm also not there to carry someone else who, frankly, isn't yet suited for Savage.

[whiskeybravo]

Very real situation. Recently recruiting for replacement tank in my static. One guy I talked to vehemently expressed his disgust with the attitude of PF groups. Doing my due diligence to check his logs, I literally find he has the worst of the worst. Come to find out he plays on ps4, he had no idea that his damage was so low. I wanted to give him a shot because he seemed very interested in learning how to be better. After working with him one night, we increased his dps by almost 1000. He still needs a bit more improvement, but how would he have ever known how "bad" he was. What PF is gonna take the time to work with him to get better? None. While I can't say for certain, I'd be willing to bet a lot the cancer he ran in to in PF got a hell of lot worse when they saw his numbers lol

For reasons like this I'd support a personal in-game parser. It doesn't have show other people's dps, only your own. There's really no other way to get better in this game then by comparing damage. Half the "hardcore" raiding community would be shite without 3rd party plugins calling out mechanics for them, without being able to see their damage numbers compared to everyone else, without fflogs breaking down every single aspect of the fight for them. So let PS4 players be able to see their own damage, it's not asking a lot.

[DeaconMoore]

I appreciate your honesty. What criteria would you use to determine someone was looking to be carried versus someone who plays a job which naturally does less damage per second?

My bar? It's not going to be the same as everyone else. You'll see people with differing opinions. But sure, my bar is someone claiming to know and cleared the fight cranking out substantially less than they should be for what they're playing with. I also consider if they were lower due to clutch plays such as hard casting a res. I won't fault someone for trying to make the run a success. If they're new to the fight I expect them to suck it up and am more forgiving, especially if they're a guildmate trying to break into the game.

This is a poor example. Of course you'll know when you mess up an intrinsic part of your rotation, especially if it results in a death.. What a parse does is show the numerical effect on smaller mistakes or what part of your rotation is worth sacrificing if a mechanic comes up. "Should I use Battle Litany here or time it with raid buffs?" "Will Chaos Thrust last or would double Full Thrust be better?"

And yes, it judges other players based on their numbers. I fail to see the negative when used properly. Per my example a few pages back, Mr. Rockbreaker Monk basically contributed 50% less than his role should, forcing the other players to pick up her slack. This inherently makes deaths potentially more difficult to recover. Why shouldn't players who are woefully underperforming be "called out"? It doesn't need to be aggressively, but I'm also not there to carry someone else who, frankly, isn't yet suited for Savage.

Yes, you do have to make judgement calls on when to use your abilities. And yes a parse will show you your numbers going down and going up. And you will learn the things you point out over the course of your play. Preferably in trivial content or the target dummy. You shouldn't be learning to play your class at it's best when you should be learning and clearing the fight. That's where my deadly boss mods point comes from. It helps you plan ahead so you can do your best when it counts. The parse would just confirm if you nailed it or failed it after the fact.

And as I never said I'm anti-parse (i'm pro), I also never said someone shouldn't get called out, nor did I say they should aggressively get called out for that matter. I just said it's going to happen. It just doesn't happen now so much because the first rule of it is you don't talk about it.