How's Ultimate?

[bswpayton]

Easy relative to what came before. Shinryu and V3S aren't particularly hard fights, especially not the former. Say you can't claim that .

I look at it more as build up , some players that talk the most trash are the ones who been playin this game for years. Also look at how the game works, the reason you get a gap is because for someone coming into the game they arent gona get to do alex, not gona get to do any of the old primals sync to even get any practice in because its dead by just being out leveled. Its ridiculous to think that the majority will be amazing when like you said you literally go from dungeons to just pressing buttons to even doing a simple primal for some susnao was their first none dungeon boss in the game.

Add on top of that everyone tells people to learn to play ,this forum def doesnt help I dont see any post on key bind set up, barely see a rotation set up thread on here. People ask for tips on content or stats or anything and it hardly gets any feedback. You go to look up a rotation on youtube and its basically just someone , just tryin to show off their own numbers, hardly any but a few put ability descriptions on the videos. So what does one expect like I swear some people act like the state in which we are now didnt come from somewhere.

How far do u expect someone to dig to find an optimal rotation etc because its clearly not on the surface. People enjoy getting their pov across more than actually helping these horrible players and casuals they are so dismissive of. At the end of the day this game is a business its better for their business to have raids like Alex and this omega. If they made stuff like this ultimate then it would be a horrible business move , Im expecting this ultimate clear rate to be awful and I hope that many dont clear it so then maybe they will just shut up for once and stop being so dismissive of other players. One would say even fellow raiders, you are dismissing players whom want to take part in content that the wide majority of players could care less about. Tossing the word casual around , like people are just horrible beings or something.

And people in statics can cal content whatever they like, but its a very different path there is no way around that compared to pugging content hence why people join them in the first place. Someone in ur static isnt gona leave if you slip up and mess up one mechanic, its a totally different ball game , in a static you are a team when your puggin its just a bunch of individuals that hopefully can get the job done together.

[Enjuden]

If people want to put in the effort to get better, they will put in the effort and look up the relevant info. Some jobs are admittedly much harder to find BiS and why said items are BiS (IE Samurai), but the information is there, and out in the public to look at. It's internet 101. I hate to say it but what keybinds are good and what isn't is not something a guide is useful for. That's for you to figure out, and only you can say what's comfortable for yourself. I had to nearly ditch the keyboard entirely for a gaming mouse in order to be useful in XIV and other mmos I played.

Are people going to post things on the official forums for optimal rotation? Maybe, but look at what happened to Dervy. He got banned for trying to help people. He posted tools that he used, why x was better than y, what rotation did more dps compared to another, and he got banned for it. That's why you won't see things on the official forums and most of it is hearsay, or worse, blatantly wrong. The forums are good at telling you what to do, but never why, and that's the difference.

As for people who are dismissive? That's hit and miss. I've seen people that are willing to invest a lot of time in people who are inexperienced from the top end raiders, as well as what you say you see. I hate to say it, but pugs are just as much of a team as a static. Are they temporary? Yea, but they're still a team. The only difference between a static that cuts people loose for poor performance and a pug is one is temporary and the other isn't.

On topic: It's hard. Real hard. Twin took about four hours to figure out how to do and get to enrage, and that's with help from streams. I haven't gone to Nael yet, but I hear bad things from the people I'm running it with. They're pugging it, by the way. I'm going to try it again after the raids are done and hopefully see Nael. I've been through the coils when it was relevant, but from seeing what videos there were of the Nael portion of the fight, it will probably take me a while to wrap my head around what's even going on in that phase. 6-8 hours, maybe? Boss mechanics that act like that are a personal weakness of mine. It also made me realize how important being self sufficient is in XIV. Not being able to make your own food and potions is costly, so that is something I'm now working on. So far my answer is yes, it definitely lives up to the moniker of Ultimate. It's orderly at first, then grows chaotic near the end with Twintania. Nael is a special case of chaotic though from what I'm hearing.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

How far do u expect someone to dig to find an optimal rotation

I just typed "FFXIV Dragoon guide" into google. My results?

- How to Dragoon per Second
- Multiple videos, including Momo's optimization guide
- Multiple visual image guides

So in all of a five second google search, everything I could need on how to play Dragoon just appeared, including a forum where I can ask questions.

I look at it more as build up , some players that talk the most trash are the ones who been playin this game for years. Also look at how the game works, the reason you get a gap is because for someone coming into the game they arent gona get to do alex, not gona get to do any of the old primals sync to even get any practice in because its dead by just being out leveled. Its ridiculous to think that the majority will be amazing when like you said you literally go from dungeons to just pressing buttons to even doing a simple primal for some susnao was their first none dungeon boss in the game.

This is a blatant Strawman. Nowhere in my reply did I mention once I assumed people would be "amazing." Wanna know how my static formed? Through pugs. Most of us met randomly through Sophia pugging, and only one had any real experience at higher end content. We struggled through Creator but got increasingly better as time went on. Whereas it took them two months to down Cruise Chaser (I was with another group at the time), Halicarnassus was a second week kill; possibly first if scheduling permitted. We didn't have ARR or Coil experience-- most didn't even have raid experience in another MMO. We simply worked towards a goal, practiced and gradually improved. And that was through what began as pugging. Stop pretending like you need two years through of Savage content to be a good players.

I intend to take Ninja into Savage in a couple weeks. You know how I'll be decent at it? By googling for guides and practicing. Anyone can do that.

[bswpayton]

If you’re citing Live Letters and “hard facts”, then source them, then. Since you’re so insistent on proving that your point is “right.” As for .

so your sayin a sample size on flogs even if everyyyyyyyyyyone doesnt post theirs like u claim is less credible than your own opinion or mine for that matter. Go look at it yourself its a drop in the thousands from v2s to v4s lets not act like thats not factual. Im not gona post someones flogs on here I have respect for peoples privacy but its clear as day look at the top flogs and someone whos cleared everything click on the first and second one and then click on neo exdeath the number is cut in half essentially.

But just because you say everyone doesnt post flogs i guess that information doesnt matter , yea sure if you want to believe that go ahead. Click on the top palidans on the first tier the amount of parses on palidan is 14800, second one 12900, third 9200, neo exdeath that number goes down to 5000. that is literally a 7000 parse drop off. For bard it goes 11k from the first encounter to 4k on neo exdeath Im sorry but I will take these numbers over anything you say because they hold more weight than any experience u or I have had but keep believing everything that comes out of your mouth.

[HyoMinPark]

so your sayin a sample size on flogs even if everyyyyyyyyyyone doesnt post theirs like u claim is less credible than your own opinion or mine for that matter. Go look at it yourself its a drop in the thousands from v2s to v4s lets not act like thats not factual.

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That’s not what I’m claiming at all. You are the one trying to discuss “facts” in a thread that, quite frankly, has absolutely nothing to do with anything that you’ve posted about—it was a thread made just asking “How is Ultimate going so far” when 4.1 went live and the world first groups started their progression. You hijacked a thread to state how unnecessary Ultimate was, how it was a “bad business move”, and how it’s completely unwarranted all because you seemingly don’t like the content. People asked you to provide evidence to support your completely off-topic claims, and people refuted and rebutted your “facts.”

But just because you say everyone doesnt post flogs i guess that information doesnt matter , yea sure if you want to believe that go ahead.

That isn’t what I’m saying; what I’m saying is that it should not be used as some form of absolute because it has been made known on several occasions that not everyone uses it, so one cannot always use it as a definitive resource if they want to claim how valid a piece of content is. You keep claiming that “because FFlogs drops off after V2S, that means that V3S and V4S are hard, and Ultimate is unwarranted because it’s gated behind V4S clears and why have something not everyone can do.” I’m merely saying that not everyone uploads to FFlogs, so the clear rate may, in fact, be higher on those tiers than what you’re claiming. You’re attempting to use FFlogs as an absolute when you cannot do that. Aside from the fact that your discussion on why Ultimate is unwarranted seems to be completely opinionated, so it cannot be taken as fact.

Nowhere in any of my posts have I stated that my opinions are facts.

[bswpayton]

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That’s not what I’m claiming at all. You are the one trying to discuss “facts” in a thread that, quite frankly, has absolutely nothing to do with anything that you’ve

even if the clears for v4s is higher then so would all the other ones , thus meaning the drop off is still in the thosands , just because youd like to inflate the clear rate numbers of neo exdeath doesnt mean that the other numbers wouldnt be inflated as well. Im simply sayin that maybe half a million players play this game, less than 50 thosand of those players raid, even fewer of those have completed all the raids, even fewer of those whom cleared neo exdeath sense its so easy according to people like you.

Then even fewer people would clear ulitamte so the question is whats the point then, you keep sayin us and we wanted harder content , alot of people havent even finished the current raids. So who are you talkin about a few thousand people maybe not even 7 thousand people total whom have cleared neo exdeath so we should make a whole encounter for them when we already have raids in the game? I dont think so this is just more content thats gona die just like all the other raids do alex and coil. So the resources put into makin this could have been put elsewhere because the amount of players this instance was made for isnt significant enough for them to have something major as a standalone in a patch package.

[whiskeybravo]

That isn’t what I’m saying; what I’m saying is that it should not be used as some form of absolute because it has been made known on several occasions that not everyone uses it, so one cannot always use it as a definitive resource if they want to claim how valid a piece of content is.

I think it's a valid comparison. It may be true that not everyone uploads their logs, but I think it would be a safe assumption that those who have uploaded their v1-2s logs would also upload their v3-4s logs if they had them.

To be entirely fair to everyone, SE stated back around HW release that they wanted to make a savage final coil. We never got that, but we did get Ultimate finally. So just take it for what it's worth. I mean I still haven't done stuff like POTD or even PVP, there's plenty of content that some people just never get around to doing. Does that really hurt the amount of other content we get?

[HyoMinPark]

even if the clears for v4s is higher then so would all the other ones , thus meaning the drop off is still in the thosands , just because youd like to inflate the clear rate numbers of neo exdeath doesnt mean that the other numbers wouldnt be inflated as well. Im simply sayin that maybe half a million players play this game, less than 50 thosand of those players raid, even fewer of those have completed all the raids, even fewer of those whom cleared neo exdeath sense its so easy according to people like you.

I said that Neo was easier than Alexander Prime, who was easier than Brute Justice, who was easier than Living Liquid. I never said it was faceroll easy, but that it was easier than it’s predecessors, and that seems to be the trend SE is taking with the Savage content, and even the Ex primals—rather than releasing things on par with previous raids/primals, they’re getting easier. Look at HW: Thordan Ex and Sephirot Ex were really challenging upon release. Then, there was Nidhogg Ex, and then... Sophia. As much as I loved Sophia, she was extremely easy. I think that content should remain relatively the same in terms of difficulty, not get easier. Of course, so many people cry and whine when the least bit of a challenge appears, and cry for nerfs, so what are the developers to do.

That being said, there is also nothing wrong with them allocating a bit of resources to make Ultimate for the people that want it. If it was so unwanted and so unwarranted as you claim, then why are there so many groups currently trying to get world first? There is a Google Doc out there with, last I checked, a little over 80 different groups who have put their names in as groups aiming to get a world first or server first clear. That doesn’t sound like unwanted content to me. Just because it caters to a smaller percentage than the vast majority (who this game’s design centers around) doesn’t mean that it’s unwanted.

Ultimate being added in no way has impacted the other content in the game. Yeah, maybe we got 1 less Expert Roulette dungeon, but we still got a 24-man (on schedule), an Ex primal (also on schedule), the Squadron Missions (which are apparently really good for sub-50 jobs), there’s a new PvP mode coming out soon I believe (don’t really follow PvP, but I recall something about it), new Beast Tribe quests, new content for crafters and gathers (the Ala Mhigan crafts), Lost Canals, and the developers are releasing Perform for Bards, quite possibly the most pointless piece of content in my opinion, but hey, people wanted it. Eureka is being planned for 4.2, PotD 2.0 is probably going to come out around 4.35 like the original PotD did. It’s not like Patch 4.1 was Ultimate and nothing else. Could there be more? Yeah, sure. But I highly doubt the shortage is due solely to Ultimate.

Then even fewer people would clear ulitamte so the question is whats the point then, you keep sayin us and we wanted harder content , alot of people havent even finished the current raids. So who are you talkin about a few thousand people maybe not even 7 thousand people total whom have cleared neo exdeath so we should make a whole encounter for them when we already have raids in the game? I dont think so this is just more content thats gona die just like all the other raids do alex and coil. So the resources put into makin this could have been put elsewhere because the amount of players this instance was made for isnt significant enough for them to have something major as a standalone in a patch package.

What’s the point of Ultimate? The challenge for those who want it. Just because you don’t want it doesn’t mean that everyone else doesn’t. All content dies; that is inevitable in a game like FFXIV. But that doesn’t mean that it’s unwarranted. I mean, it could have been like LoV, which was dead on arrival—completely dead on Day 1. Ultimate is far from dead, considering the best of the best are still progressing. As far as I know, no one has cleared it yet, which means it’s quite challenging, and makes it something I personally look forward to—me, and my static.

[Texa]

This is like complaining about there being a highly requested spicy dish on the menu when the everything else at the restaurant is mild or literally a dessert "but the spicy one is too hot for me, it should also be mild!".

[Ameela]

Guys I don't like crafting and gathering, it takes way too long and I don't have the time or patience for it, can SE please make it easier and faster? Because I think it's unfair that the crafting and gathering content isn't to my liking, even if there are more people out there who actually enjoy it.