How's Ultimate?

[bswpayton]

The inevitably counterpart .

First dungeons are dungeons they will always be easy. Never said susano was hard I get annoyed when people call v3s and v4s shiyru etc easy especially those in statics. It\\'s simply totally different doing only things with random and people u always do content with stop being delusional. And having a parser while half the player base doesn\\'t, or call outs, and not having to worry about someone leaving ur group after one wipe. Let\\'s stop acting like the approaches are the same in my opinion I respect those whom pug the whole tier and aren\\'t dismissive to other people more than someone that\\'s been in a static. I don\\'t want everything to be easy the defs have stated people have had trouble with the raids we have now u know they have actual data. While everyone in forums like this make offhand comments about how easy things are while even fflogs data and SE have numbers to back it up with facts.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

Easy relative to what came before. Shinryu and V3S aren't particularly hard fights, especially not the former. Say you can't claim that because you have a static is foolhardy. Do you think everyone just stumbled into getting one? It's called effort. You'll have to actually dedicate time and energy whereas the overwhelming majority of content can be easily pugged. EX Primal necessitate more effort and a willingness to learn, which only increases the higher up the totem pole you climb. Getting into a static can be seen as apart of said dedication, though some opt to stay freelancer knowing it will be harder. Perhaps if people put in more effort to clear instead of complaining, they might get somewhere. The amount of people you see in PF who can't even perform a basic opener is astounding. Look no further than Zurvan. He wasn't hard, people just tried to brute force through without putting in some effort to learn their jobs or actually do mechanics and died.

If JP players can amass decent clear rates, there is no reason we can't. Now there is plenty of fault to go around. Plenty of raiders lack any patience and XIV does a piss poor job teaching you how a serviceable rotation works. That said, my bad experiences are more akin to the Zurvan examples.

[bswpayton]

Easy relative to what came before. Shinryu and V3S aren't particularly hard fights, especially not the former. Say you can't claim that .

I look at it more as build up , some players that talk the most trash are the ones who been playin this game for years. Also look at how the game works, the reason you get a gap is because for someone coming into the game they arent gona get to do alex, not gona get to do any of the old primals sync to even get any practice in because its dead by just being out leveled. Its ridiculous to think that the majority will be amazing when like you said you literally go from dungeons to just pressing buttons to even doing a simple primal for some susnao was their first none dungeon boss in the game.

Add on top of that everyone tells people to learn to play ,this forum def doesnt help I dont see any post on key bind set up, barely see a rotation set up thread on here. People ask for tips on content or stats or anything and it hardly gets any feedback. You go to look up a rotation on youtube and its basically just someone , just tryin to show off their own numbers, hardly any but a few put ability descriptions on the videos. So what does one expect like I swear some people act like the state in which we are now didnt come from somewhere.

How far do u expect someone to dig to find an optimal rotation etc because its clearly not on the surface. People enjoy getting their pov across more than actually helping these horrible players and casuals they are so dismissive of. At the end of the day this game is a business its better for their business to have raids like Alex and this omega. If they made stuff like this ultimate then it would be a horrible business move , Im expecting this ultimate clear rate to be awful and I hope that many dont clear it so then maybe they will just shut up for once and stop being so dismissive of other players. One would say even fellow raiders, you are dismissing players whom want to take part in content that the wide majority of players could care less about. Tossing the word casual around , like people are just horrible beings or something.

And people in statics can cal content whatever they like, but its a very different path there is no way around that compared to pugging content hence why people join them in the first place. Someone in ur static isnt gona leave if you slip up and mess up one mechanic, its a totally different ball game , in a static you are a team when your puggin its just a bunch of individuals that hopefully can get the job done together.

[Enjuden]

If people want to put in the effort to get better, they will put in the effort and look up the relevant info. Some jobs are admittedly much harder to find BiS and why said items are BiS (IE Samurai), but the information is there, and out in the public to look at. It's internet 101. I hate to say it but what keybinds are good and what isn't is not something a guide is useful for. That's for you to figure out, and only you can say what's comfortable for yourself. I had to nearly ditch the keyboard entirely for a gaming mouse in order to be useful in XIV and other mmos I played.

Are people going to post things on the official forums for optimal rotation? Maybe, but look at what happened to Dervy. He got banned for trying to help people. He posted tools that he used, why x was better than y, what rotation did more dps compared to another, and he got banned for it. That's why you won't see things on the official forums and most of it is hearsay, or worse, blatantly wrong. The forums are good at telling you what to do, but never why, and that's the difference.

As for people who are dismissive? That's hit and miss. I've seen people that are willing to invest a lot of time in people who are inexperienced from the top end raiders, as well as what you say you see. I hate to say it, but pugs are just as much of a team as a static. Are they temporary? Yea, but they're still a team. The only difference between a static that cuts people loose for poor performance and a pug is one is temporary and the other isn't.

On topic: It's hard. Real hard. Twin took about four hours to figure out how to do and get to enrage, and that's with help from streams. I haven't gone to Nael yet, but I hear bad things from the people I'm running it with. They're pugging it, by the way. I'm going to try it again after the raids are done and hopefully see Nael. I've been through the coils when it was relevant, but from seeing what videos there were of the Nael portion of the fight, it will probably take me a while to wrap my head around what's even going on in that phase. 6-8 hours, maybe? Boss mechanics that act like that are a personal weakness of mine. It also made me realize how important being self sufficient is in XIV. Not being able to make your own food and potions is costly, so that is something I'm now working on. So far my answer is yes, it definitely lives up to the moniker of Ultimate. It's orderly at first, then grows chaotic near the end with Twintania. Nael is a special case of chaotic though from what I'm hearing.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

How far do u expect someone to dig to find an optimal rotation

I just typed "FFXIV Dragoon guide" into google. My results?

- How to Dragoon per Second
- Multiple videos, including Momo's optimization guide
- Multiple visual image guides

So in all of a five second google search, everything I could need on how to play Dragoon just appeared, including a forum where I can ask questions.

I look at it more as build up , some players that talk the most trash are the ones who been playin this game for years. Also look at how the game works, the reason you get a gap is because for someone coming into the game they arent gona get to do alex, not gona get to do any of the old primals sync to even get any practice in because its dead by just being out leveled. Its ridiculous to think that the majority will be amazing when like you said you literally go from dungeons to just pressing buttons to even doing a simple primal for some susnao was their first none dungeon boss in the game.

This is a blatant Strawman. Nowhere in my reply did I mention once I assumed people would be "amazing." Wanna know how my static formed? Through pugs. Most of us met randomly through Sophia pugging, and only one had any real experience at higher end content. We struggled through Creator but got increasingly better as time went on. Whereas it took them two months to down Cruise Chaser (I was with another group at the time), Halicarnassus was a second week kill; possibly first if scheduling permitted. We didn't have ARR or Coil experience-- most didn't even have raid experience in another MMO. We simply worked towards a goal, practiced and gradually improved. And that was through what began as pugging. Stop pretending like you need two years through of Savage content to be a good players.

I intend to take Ninja into Savage in a couple weeks. You know how I'll be decent at it? By googling for guides and practicing. Anyone can do that.

[Kallera]

I guess the question is how many Playstation users get around to doing this, considering the "advantages" of pc players.

[bswpayton]

I have taken part in more Savage content than I have Expert Dunge.

Never said the freaking expert dungeons where hard. Read a live letter the devs said we expected people to clear 1 and 2 and struggle with 3 and 4. And flogs back that up get off ur high horse has nothing to do with me. I'm stating facts from devs and collective data ur just talking about ur opinion

[HyoMinPark]

Never said the freaking expert dungeons where hard. Read a live letter the devs said we expected people to clear 1 and 2 and struggle with 3 and 4. And flogs back that up get off ur high horse has nothing to do with me. I'm stating facts from devs and collective data ur just talking about ur opinion

If you’re citing Live Letters and “hard facts”, then source them, then. Since you’re so insistent on proving that your point is “right.” As for what you’re referring to, you should probably make your posts more clear so that others can understand what you’re saying. Because, from what I gathered, you’ve been discussing your opinion on Ultimate this entire thread, and how unwarranted it is. That sounds very opinionated to me.

As for your comparison to PUGs and statics, you realize that statics can stuggle just as much with tiers than PUGs can, right? Static members can have members just rage-quit after a couple wipes because they just aren’t feeling it one night. My first static was stuck on v3s for 5-6 weeks because of the constant rotation of healers and OTs we had, and a lot of people, including myself, just left the party after a few wipes to Hali because it gets frustrating wiping to the same thing over and over. My second static has off-nights where our v1s runs are ridiculously messy for whatever reason—just last night 3 of us lagged out in the middle of V3S and we spent far longer than necessary on it.

You’re making it sound like PUGs try harder than those with statics, and that is not always the case; people in statics try just as hard. Perhaps, instead of telling people to get off of their high horse, you should stop your broad generalizations. PUGs don’t always have it harder than those in statics, not everyone parses, not everyone uses callouts, and not everyone uploads to FFlogs, so your “hard data” on clear rates that you seem to be basing just off of uploaded data to FFlogs is going to be off. Because not everyone reports to FFlogs.

As for V3S and V4S comparisons, they are easier than A11S and A12S were at launch, which were easier than Midas, which was easier than Gordias. Shinryu, while more challenging than Susano or Lakshmi, is not as challenging as Thordan was at release, the primal that corresponds with Shinryu. The progression new raids and Ex trials seem to have towards the easier/lighter difficulty scale can be quite a bit of a let down for those that are looking for more. Ultimate gives those people that want more the “more” they want. Sorry that you don’t like that.

[bswpayton]

If you’re citing Live Letters and “hard facts”, then source them, then. Since you’re so insistent on proving that your point is “right.” As for .

so your sayin a sample size on flogs even if everyyyyyyyyyyone doesnt post theirs like u claim is less credible than your own opinion or mine for that matter. Go look at it yourself its a drop in the thousands from v2s to v4s lets not act like thats not factual. Im not gona post someones flogs on here I have respect for peoples privacy but its clear as day look at the top flogs and someone whos cleared everything click on the first and second one and then click on neo exdeath the number is cut in half essentially.

But just because you say everyone doesnt post flogs i guess that information doesnt matter , yea sure if you want to believe that go ahead. Click on the top palidans on the first tier the amount of parses on palidan is 14800, second one 12900, third 9200, neo exdeath that number goes down to 5000. that is literally a 7000 parse drop off. For bard it goes 11k from the first encounter to 4k on neo exdeath Im sorry but I will take these numbers over anything you say because they hold more weight than any experience u or I have had but keep believing everything that comes out of your mouth.

[HyoMinPark]

so your sayin a sample size on flogs even if everyyyyyyyyyyone doesnt post theirs like u claim is less credible than your own opinion or mine for that matter. Go look at it yourself its a drop in the thousands from v2s to v4s lets not act like thats not factual.

.

That’s not what I’m claiming at all. You are the one trying to discuss “facts” in a thread that, quite frankly, has absolutely nothing to do with anything that you’ve posted about—it was a thread made just asking “How is Ultimate going so far” when 4.1 went live and the world first groups started their progression. You hijacked a thread to state how unnecessary Ultimate was, how it was a “bad business move”, and how it’s completely unwarranted all because you seemingly don’t like the content. People asked you to provide evidence to support your completely off-topic claims, and people refuted and rebutted your “facts.”

But just because you say everyone doesnt post flogs i guess that information doesnt matter , yea sure if you want to believe that go ahead.

That isn’t what I’m saying; what I’m saying is that it should not be used as some form of absolute because it has been made known on several occasions that not everyone uses it, so one cannot always use it as a definitive resource if they want to claim how valid a piece of content is. You keep claiming that “because FFlogs drops off after V2S, that means that V3S and V4S are hard, and Ultimate is unwarranted because it’s gated behind V4S clears and why have something not everyone can do.” I’m merely saying that not everyone uploads to FFlogs, so the clear rate may, in fact, be higher on those tiers than what you’re claiming. You’re attempting to use FFlogs as an absolute when you cannot do that. Aside from the fact that your discussion on why Ultimate is unwarranted seems to be completely opinionated, so it cannot be taken as fact.

Nowhere in any of my posts have I stated that my opinions are facts.