How's Ultimate?

[HyoMinPark]

so your sayin a sample size on flogs even if everyyyyyyyyyyone doesnt post theirs like u claim is less credible than your own opinion or mine for that matter. Go look at it yourself its a drop in the thousands from v2s to v4s lets not act like thats not factual.

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That’s not what I’m claiming at all. You are the one trying to discuss “facts” in a thread that, quite frankly, has absolutely nothing to do with anything that you’ve posted about—it was a thread made just asking “How is Ultimate going so far” when 4.1 went live and the world first groups started their progression. You hijacked a thread to state how unnecessary Ultimate was, how it was a “bad business move”, and how it’s completely unwarranted all because you seemingly don’t like the content. People asked you to provide evidence to support your completely off-topic claims, and people refuted and rebutted your “facts.”

But just because you say everyone doesnt post flogs i guess that information doesnt matter , yea sure if you want to believe that go ahead.

That isn’t what I’m saying; what I’m saying is that it should not be used as some form of absolute because it has been made known on several occasions that not everyone uses it, so one cannot always use it as a definitive resource if they want to claim how valid a piece of content is. You keep claiming that “because FFlogs drops off after V2S, that means that V3S and V4S are hard, and Ultimate is unwarranted because it’s gated behind V4S clears and why have something not everyone can do.” I’m merely saying that not everyone uploads to FFlogs, so the clear rate may, in fact, be higher on those tiers than what you’re claiming. You’re attempting to use FFlogs as an absolute when you cannot do that. Aside from the fact that your discussion on why Ultimate is unwarranted seems to be completely opinionated, so it cannot be taken as fact.

Nowhere in any of my posts have I stated that my opinions are facts.

[bswpayton]

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That’s not what I’m claiming at all. You are the one trying to discuss “facts” in a thread that, quite frankly, has absolutely nothing to do with anything that you’ve

even if the clears for v4s is higher then so would all the other ones , thus meaning the drop off is still in the thosands , just because youd like to inflate the clear rate numbers of neo exdeath doesnt mean that the other numbers wouldnt be inflated as well. Im simply sayin that maybe half a million players play this game, less than 50 thosand of those players raid, even fewer of those have completed all the raids, even fewer of those whom cleared neo exdeath sense its so easy according to people like you.

Then even fewer people would clear ulitamte so the question is whats the point then, you keep sayin us and we wanted harder content , alot of people havent even finished the current raids. So who are you talkin about a few thousand people maybe not even 7 thousand people total whom have cleared neo exdeath so we should make a whole encounter for them when we already have raids in the game? I dont think so this is just more content thats gona die just like all the other raids do alex and coil. So the resources put into makin this could have been put elsewhere because the amount of players this instance was made for isnt significant enough for them to have something major as a standalone in a patch package.

[HyoMinPark]

even if the clears for v4s is higher then so would all the other ones , thus meaning the drop off is still in the thosands , just because youd like to inflate the clear rate numbers of neo exdeath doesnt mean that the other numbers wouldnt be inflated as well. Im simply sayin that maybe half a million players play this game, less than 50 thosand of those players raid, even fewer of those have completed all the raids, even fewer of those whom cleared neo exdeath sense its so easy according to people like you.

I said that Neo was easier than Alexander Prime, who was easier than Brute Justice, who was easier than Living Liquid. I never said it was faceroll easy, but that it was easier than it’s predecessors, and that seems to be the trend SE is taking with the Savage content, and even the Ex primals—rather than releasing things on par with previous raids/primals, they’re getting easier. Look at HW: Thordan Ex and Sephirot Ex were really challenging upon release. Then, there was Nidhogg Ex, and then... Sophia. As much as I loved Sophia, she was extremely easy. I think that content should remain relatively the same in terms of difficulty, not get easier. Of course, so many people cry and whine when the least bit of a challenge appears, and cry for nerfs, so what are the developers to do.

That being said, there is also nothing wrong with them allocating a bit of resources to make Ultimate for the people that want it. If it was so unwanted and so unwarranted as you claim, then why are there so many groups currently trying to get world first? There is a Google Doc out there with, last I checked, a little over 80 different groups who have put their names in as groups aiming to get a world first or server first clear. That doesn’t sound like unwanted content to me. Just because it caters to a smaller percentage than the vast majority (who this game’s design centers around) doesn’t mean that it’s unwanted.

Ultimate being added in no way has impacted the other content in the game. Yeah, maybe we got 1 less Expert Roulette dungeon, but we still got a 24-man (on schedule), an Ex primal (also on schedule), the Squadron Missions (which are apparently really good for sub-50 jobs), there’s a new PvP mode coming out soon I believe (don’t really follow PvP, but I recall something about it), new Beast Tribe quests, new content for crafters and gathers (the Ala Mhigan crafts), Lost Canals, and the developers are releasing Perform for Bards, quite possibly the most pointless piece of content in my opinion, but hey, people wanted it. Eureka is being planned for 4.2, PotD 2.0 is probably going to come out around 4.35 like the original PotD did. It’s not like Patch 4.1 was Ultimate and nothing else. Could there be more? Yeah, sure. But I highly doubt the shortage is due solely to Ultimate.

Then even fewer people would clear ulitamte so the question is whats the point then, you keep sayin us and we wanted harder content , alot of people havent even finished the current raids. So who are you talkin about a few thousand people maybe not even 7 thousand people total whom have cleared neo exdeath so we should make a whole encounter for them when we already have raids in the game? I dont think so this is just more content thats gona die just like all the other raids do alex and coil. So the resources put into makin this could have been put elsewhere because the amount of players this instance was made for isnt significant enough for them to have something major as a standalone in a patch package.

What’s the point of Ultimate? The challenge for those who want it. Just because you don’t want it doesn’t mean that everyone else doesn’t. All content dies; that is inevitable in a game like FFXIV. But that doesn’t mean that it’s unwarranted. I mean, it could have been like LoV, which was dead on arrival—completely dead on Day 1. Ultimate is far from dead, considering the best of the best are still progressing. As far as I know, no one has cleared it yet, which means it’s quite challenging, and makes it something I personally look forward to—me, and my static.

[Vaer]

So the resources put into makin this could have been put elsewhere because the amount of players this instance was made for isnt significant enough for them to have something major as a standalone in a patch package.

Yeah I doubt people on a forum have the authority to determine what is worth making and what is not. SE gets to decide that. They decided they wanted to put this in the game so they did. Nothing more, nothing less. Can we just let the people that are actually enjoying this content have their fun without turning this into a "you stole muh content" argument.

[whiskeybravo]

That isn’t what I’m saying; what I’m saying is that it should not be used as some form of absolute because it has been made known on several occasions that not everyone uses it, so one cannot always use it as a definitive resource if they want to claim how valid a piece of content is.

I think it's a valid comparison. It may be true that not everyone uploads their logs, but I think it would be a safe assumption that those who have uploaded their v1-2s logs would also upload their v3-4s logs if they had them.

To be entirely fair to everyone, SE stated back around HW release that they wanted to make a savage final coil. We never got that, but we did get Ultimate finally. So just take it for what it's worth. I mean I still haven't done stuff like POTD or even PVP, there's plenty of content that some people just never get around to doing. Does that really hurt the amount of other content we get?