How's Ultimate?

[Texa]

hmm I still debate whether its justifiable tho

1. The housing team is completely separate from the battle design team and Yoshi-P has already promised more housing for the next major patch
2. Praetorium and the other one aren't going to be changed, finding a different way to get the story from the cut scenes in for content that is four and a half years old would not be proper use of the cut scene design team's resources and a fair amount of newbies use party finder and unsync the content now anyways
3. They already compromised on not having flyable zones in ARR with us by increasing land mount speed which is really only useful in those areas to begin with

[Zojha]

I think this is a fact that might be going a bit overlooked when it comes to the idea of "content only for the hardcore" - that there are plenty of people who are getting entertainment value over watching other people attempt it, without the stress or frustration of attempting it themselves.

The issue with that entertainment value however is that people do not need to subscribe to your game in order to get it. It primarily benefits the streamers, not the game or the people who make it, hence why you couldn't develop a game on that premise - You'd need to start to monetize the streams for that concept to work out, else you'll just be sitting on a pile of disproportionate costs. For the game as a whole, it is far more beneficial to put that entertainment value into something that requires participation OR start to monetize the streams.

It isn't always possible - There were League of Legends streamers who made a living out of streaming themselves insult their teammates and rage and people got enough kicks out of that to finance those people. You can't really control that and you can't really condone that either, since it's technically against your ToS, so making a proper contract... would put you in a bad spot. But in general, you want people to actually need to BUY the product you're selling to get its value.

[Divinewindx]

I've spent like 10 hours or so inside of Ultimate. I never got to prog Coils as I started back in HW launch, so I really enjoy these fights, they're essentially entirely new fights to me that are reminiscent of a6s pre nerf difficulty, so not too bad, at least on a individual level, it's just on a group level, its difficult because it requires consistency.

[bswpayton]

Because, in a game that caters majorly to the casual.

While the dungeons are easy and certainly, and it's just pull as many adds as possible. The money put into them is worth more than making content that maybe 10k out of 500k will take part in. I love when people in statics call all content easy. While this content is pluggable let's not act like the path isn't different, then having people u trust and play with on the regular doesn't cloud the perception of said content. Are having pasers and call outs don't make a difference or having people that's dedicated enough to wiping hour after hour with u on said content doesn't make a difference. This fight while nice just wasn't warranted, it's proof in the numbers many peoples flogs stop at v2s or 3s. Let's stop acting like everything shares the belief that the content is a push over when looking at things from ones on pov.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Let's stop acting like everything shares the belief that the content is a push over when looking at things from ones on pov.

The inevitably counterpart is the easier everything is by design, the less motivation people have to improve. I firmly believe the dreadfully high skill gap is rooted on the fact XIV jumps from faceroll easy to hardmore with minimal in-between. Content has become noticeably easier since Stormblood launched. You can't just point to bad players and say "see they can't do it! So it isn't faceroll!" I hate to be blunt, but players dying to Susano EX either are new to the encounter or simply aren't good at their job because, yes, he's really easy.

Regardless, the issue people like myself have taken is this is the first instance in years the devs catered to the raid community and people who either haven't cleared Neo or don't raid at all are the ones mostly whining. If you want to say 4.1 overall has sparse content, go ahead. Just stop blaming us because you want everything to be easy.

I dont get why folks are complaining about this. The rest of the content is aimed at the casual player base so having one fight aimed at the hardcore crowd should be fine. Static's going in on Saturday so I can't wait to prog this! The fight looks insanely fun from what I've gathered from watching 5150's stream. THE HYPEEEEEEE!!!!

Because it's something they can't do and are attributing this primarily recycled fight as the reason they don't get even more new content. It happens with PvP too. Some people just can't fathom not everything will be designed for their interests.

[kikix12]

While the dungeons are easy and certainly, and it's just pull as many adds as possible. The money put into them is worth more than making content that maybe 10k out of 500k will take part in.

Extremely wrong. Most people WILL burn out, no matter how much fresh content Square Enix will chug out. It is the HARDCORE gamers that are the most constant stream of money. They may not be numerous, yes, but they can be depended on for years. This is how all games (other than Buy Once, Play for Life ones) work.

Second, it is vastly superior business-wise, to cater to as wide an amount of community as possible. But unlike how you think, catering to part here and to part there IS better. As an example, let's think of the PvE and PvP. The two major content types, many players preferring one over the other in a significant amount. Let's, for the sake of argument, say that you have 100 people interested in PvP, 100 people interested in PvE, and out of these 50% of each like both. Now, if a game is 100% PvE, you have 100 happy players, 50 decently amused players that will get bored more easily and 50 players that will not touch the game. The exact same if the game is 100% PvP. But what happens if the game have PvE and PvP, both being viable in a significant deal?! You get 200 people, 100 of which will play it for years with little risk of getting bored for long, and 100 mostly quite happy with some hiccups here or there.

Making content of varied types, especially one that does not force players with other preferences into it, is very much worthwhile financially, even if there is a small amount of people. If difficult raid content like this will become more numerous, it will draw hardcore raiders that wouldn't even bother trying the game, it will strengthen the "hold" on the ones that are already playing it, and it will hardly have any effect on the majority that would not even bother trying, like you or me.

Proof of that?! Easy. Just ask a bunch of people what they like most in the game, what keeps them playing the most, and ignoring the "community and friends" answers (since they are not game-relevant), you will notice quite some variety to the answers. And the same if you will ask about the part of the game that they could not possibly care any less than they do. And you'll notice then that the same things that are irrelevant to some, are exactly what holds others interested.

[HyoMinPark]

While the dungeons are easy and certainly, and it's just pull as many adds as possible. The money put into them is worth more than making content that maybe 10k out of 500k will take part in.

I have taken part in more Savage content than I have Expert Dungeon since before Stormblood even launched. Why? Because the Savage content offers me more of a challenge than a dungeon where I basically spam an AOE skill, and then spam a couple other skills for a boss that I don’t even have to know the mechanics for to beat. I don’t even have to do a proper rotation to clear a dungeon, where as it’s far more likely I will clear Savage with one, and I mostly definitely need to know mechanics in Savage, where as one can basically ignore the majority of them in 4-mans.

Not everyone thinks that the 4-man dungeons are the most intriguing content in this game. I avoid doing them most days because they just feel like a chore, and they’re boring. And I’m not the only one who feels this way.

I love when people in statics call all content easy.

It’s not just “people in statics” that think a lot of the content in this game is easy.

This fight while nice just wasn't warranted, it's proof in the numbers many peoples flogs stop at v2s or 3s. Let's stop acting like everything shares the belief that the content is a push over when looking at things from ones on pov.

You do realize that not EVERYONE uploads to FFLogs, right? When I was doing Creator Savage, I didn’t upload to FFLogs. And I’m not sure what “content” you’re referring to, but if you’re considering the 4-man Expert dungeons hard then, I’m sorry, you are most definitely in the minority there. Ultimate was made for the people that asked for and wanted more. Therefore, not unwarranted. Just because you don’t have the desire to do the content doesn’t mean that it was unwanted content in the first place.

[Kalia]

Ultimate is fantastic. As someone who loved Midas (and Gordias with the exception of A4S), I've been waiting so long for the return of challenging raids. I feel like square struck a great balance between difficulty and hope as well, as we are progressing through the content at a steady pace, but it's still taking a substantial amount of time without the presence of a gear gate.

Remember that the difficulty of Gordias/Midas hinged on a gear gate - A4S was nearly impossible week 1/2 simply due to the amount of damage and lack of HP. Gear gating is the easy path to extending content. The fact that square was able to produce a fight that did not account for vertical gear progression that could keep top raiders struggling for this long already is a testimony to great fight design deveopers on their staff. It gives a huge amount of hope for future raids, too!

Gear gating is NOT what we have with unending coil. Unending coil is a litany of dances and mechanics sprinkled with RNG that you can react to. It's truly fantastic fight design that pushes party coordination requirements to the next level. That's really difficult to do in a game that's had an active competitive population for 4 years, through 7 raid tiers (8 if you count SCoB savage).

While I can empathize that a lot of people won't challenge this content, my hope is that this content inspires some players to try a little harder and maybe get to experience challenging raids. It's really a wonderful experience if you're up to the challenge of upping your game and team coordination.

[TheFanciestBard]

I raided enough in 2.0 to see Baha and Nael, didn't raid much at all in 3.0, and came back to the raid game for 4.0. This savage tier is fun but felt less punishing and more accessible which was nice given I am midcore at best, above average but nothing special. So with that context out of the way....

Ultimate is tons of fun. The wipes are so brutally fast and the mechanics are so tight, it feels amazing to get things right. Because it's optional there's no real frustration about missing out on pages or gear or future fights, so that helps a lot. I ground out Twin for over 2 hours last night, didn't beat her, but the feeling of how buttery smooth the fight ran when people were consistently getting to <20% is something I haven't seen since 2.0. I don't find it frustrating at all, it's just darn fun content. The last time I had this much enjoyment during raiding was 4.0 Hali Drg when I had my LoTD windows planned out and the flow of the fight was so smooth~

[NoctusT]

I dont get why folks are complaining about this. The rest of the content is aimed at the casual player base so having one fight aimed at the hardcore crowd should be fine. Static's going in on Saturday so I can't wait to prog this! The fight looks insanely fun from what I've gathered from watching 5150's stream. THE HYPEEEEEEE!!!!