Scholar since 4.1 patch - how are we finding it?

[Miles_Maelstrom]

On Sch for both succor and aldo it states "Effect cannot be stacked with Nocturnal Sect" on the tooltips...
On AST Aspected Helios and Aspected benefic state "Effect cannot be stacked with Aldoquium" on the tooltips.

So Succor/Adlo and AST in Nocturnal sect helios/benefic cannot be stacked

I don't know what you are think we are talking about . . . but

It's like this. So if a sch casts Aldo on some one and it crits it creates a large shield. Then he cast aldo again immediately and it doesn't crit, the new weaker shield would not overwrite the stronger old shield, it will fail to apply the new field.

On the other hand if an ast casts aspected bene on the guy with the crit galvanize. It'll overwrite regardless of being a weaker shield, it ideally should work like how the sch situation from above where it fails to apply the shield unless it's stronger.

[inhaledcorn]

It's better, don't get me wrong, but I feel like it still just needs a bit more to feel "good". I'd still like for Chain Strat and Excog to have interaction with Bane and Deploy respectively, even if they have to get a potency reduction on the pass. Selene is still vastly inferior to Eos. Double SCH, should it happen in random fights, feels suuuper bad (double WHM is still usable, but it's still not great either). Aetherpact/Fey's Union and Dissipation are still "meh" as capstone skills. Yeah, Dissipation got "better" thanks to changes around it, but the skill itself still does not synergize well with the SCH's playstyle and the rest of the kit (it gives more Aetherflow and a healing boost, but that healing boost doesn't affect the Aetherflow heals. The extra Aetherflow means nothing if the Aetherflow heals are on cooldown. Aetherflow used while the fairy is gone doesn't build Fairy Gauge).

It's better, but it's still highly disjointed. It had this problem in HW, too, but it was so minor, it didn't really matter. However, it's much more pronounced now, and it should be addressed, yet it's not.

[Miles_Maelstrom]

...

It's better, but it's still highly disjointed. It had this problem in HW, too, but it was so minor, it didn't really matter. However, it's much more pronounced now, and it should be addressed, yet it's not.

Preach! I went off on some of those issues in another thread. Our ability synergy definitely took a hit from HW to SB.

A big one was how deploy felt. While still functionally the same it feels like it synergies with us less. This is because in HW it used to spread any of our scholar provided buffs (which we had 2, Galvanize and e4e). Now in SB it still spread those same buffs but e4e is no longer a scholar buff, it's a Healer role action, and we have another buff to give in excog. So now it doesn't spread our scholar buffs it spread Galvanize and e4e. It just makes this skill feel off-putting.

[Kabzy]

-Snip-

I do agree that going from HW to SB kind of felt like a perfectly designed job got gutted into a clunky mess. It's not so bad now though. Funnily enough, we all speculated in 4.05 that we wouldn't get any big changes until 4.1, and then come 4.1 we got no changes to what all SCHs were actually asking for (except MP reductions, but imo the only significant one was to Summon which we got thanks to SMN). For that reason, I'm not too hopeful for Selene or Dissipation. BUT even if they just made Dissipation into a Faerie swap with less penalty, it would make the current Selene a little more relevant.

I guess Chain being able to spread via Bane wouldn't be too OP, as it would most likely be exclusive to dungeon content. I don't agree with being able to Deploy Excog though. Given how powerful Indom is, do we really need a nerfed version of Excog to be AoE? It has a much better purpose as an instant heal for tank busters IMO.

I've gotten used to SCH now, and it is effective at what it does. I can easily say though that 4.x SCH is nowhere near as fun as it was before. We can only hope 5.0 will branch us away from SMN and we'll finally get a little more attention.

[Clouse_Cleyra]

Having the shield being at least the same as an AST shield is good, because it means we can shield (t least) as good as the other shield class.
Faster summon is always appreciated so we dont waste swiftcast if our pets dies (not an usual thing)
Ive never had much of an MP issue but its always nice for Adlo to be cheaper.
Sustain is very welcome, it was a stupid thing to take it away, specially for a SMN

Anyway I cleared O4S before the patch and after the patch, SCH has always being a good job, and capable of clearing all of the games content, as every other job.

[Riyshn]

Preach! I went off on some of those issues in another thread. Our ability synergy definitely took a hit from HW to SB.

I would argue that the biggest hit to our synergy (aside from the obvious Dissipation/Aetherpact conflict), is actually the removal of Cleric Stance. Scholar feels disjointed because it is, because it was designed to take full advantage of Cleric stance dancing, and the dual-stage gameplay that that created. Now that that's gone, we've lost a core mechanical strength, and the tools that worked well with that are just kinda left hanging.

Having the shield being at least the same as an AST shield is good, because it means we can shield (t least) as good as the other shield class.

Nope, shields still aren't as strong. (numbers assume a crit multiplier of 1.4)

SCH:
Adlo: 300/300
Crit Adlo: 420/840
Succor: 150/225
Crit Succor: 210/315
Noct. AST:
Asp.Bene: 230/575
Crit Asp.Bene: 322/805
Asp.Helios: 172.5/258.75
Crit Asp.Helios: 241.5/362.25

[PaulH]

I don't know what you are think we are talking about . . . but

It's like this. So if a sch casts Aldo on some one and it crits it creates a large shield. Then he cast aldo again immediately and it doesn't crit, the new weaker shield would not overwrite the stronger old shield, it will fail to apply the new field.

Haha hmmm I dont know why my quote didnt work and some info missing... I was referring to RyuDragnier who said about that the AST he paired with didnt know about overwriting of shield on NOCT sect. I was pointing that these type of people need to read about tool tips hence stating them lol..

But I do get the shield debate it's not complex but I was trying to get from this thread about how SCH is since 4.1 and not thought debates on shields that could be spun into another thread.

[Clouse_Cleyra]

I would argue that the hit to our synergy (aside from the obvious Dissipation/Aetherpact conflict), is actually the removal of Cleric Stance. Scholar feels disjointed because it is, because it was designed to take full advantage of Cleric stance dancing, and the dual-stage gameplay that that created. Now that that's gone, we've lost a core mechanical strength, and the tools that worked well with that are just kinda left hanging.



Nope, shields still aren't as strong. (numbers assume a crit multiplier of 1.4)

SCH:
Adlo: 300/300
Crit Adlo: 420/840
Succor: 150/225
Crit Succor: 210/315
Noct. AST:
Asp.Bene: 230/575
Crit Asp.Bene: 322/805
Asp.Helios: 172.5/258.75
Crit Asp.Helios: 241.5/362.25

Why is asp helios 172,5? Isnt it 150 as same as succor? I think thats what it says on the skill.

[Ghishlain]

Why is asp helios 172,5? Isnt it 150 as same as succor? I think thats what it says on the skill.

Noct A.Helios also gains a 15% Healing Bonus from being in Nocturnal Sect.

[Clouse_Cleyra]

Noct A.Helios also gains a 15% Healing Bonus from being in Nocturnal Sect.

Oh didnt rememberd that, well AST is stronger on aoe shields then haha.
Im still sticking to SCH for Unending Coil thou xD