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  1. #1
    Player
    Kabzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Central Shroud
    Posts
    661
    Character
    Kabz Il
    World
    Spriggan
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Teraluna View Post
    At PAX East Yoshi P stated his dislike for Cleric Stance, which was a major hint that this was destined to go.
    Nothing last minute or 'appease the casuals' as you put it.
    It's speculation. You can't prove that he meant it was to be removed as his statement only alluded to it being changed in some way. And I also can't prove that it was last minute. However, it's still obvious that both the moves I mentioned were designed with Cleric Stance in mind. They literally synergise brilliantly with the old iteration of it.

    And lol it was definitely to appease the casuals, whether you agree with it or not. This entire expansion gutted most jobs for the casuals. Good healers were never limited by Cleric Stance, it's the overwhelming majority of questionable ones that couldn't handle it.
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player
    era1Ne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    360
    Character
    Kira Thrinaria
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70
    Scholar could use some QoL improvements, but other than that i am mostly satisfied with it and don't want to see dmg buffs for example. Scholar with chain and his own output is already really, really strong. Also i'd change selene as a whole and link it to dissi, because i can't see any selene buff outweighting eos without being op.
    (0)
    Last edited by era1Ne; 11-05-2017 at 05:01 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Riyshn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    264
    Character
    Riyshn'a Nhise
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    What inhaldecorn said. It's just misleading to list out the number comparisons without accurately reflecting the final values from crit/Noct multipliers.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player RiyahArp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,471
    Character
    Riyah Arpeggio
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Fey Union was designed more to remove fairy micromanagement and randomness. This way you constantly aren't needing to spam embrace, just use fey during long periods and go. Excog I don't see much point to, so I can't say much on that.

    I can say cleric would probably have killed dpsing in Stormblood if it existed the old way, though. mechanics and incoming damage seem a bit faster than in HW, and dpsing would be harder to enter into because there are times when you simply can't risk the penalty.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    Tridus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    The Goblet
    Posts
    1,510
    Character
    Cecelia Stormfeather
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Got my SCH to 64 now, and I'm starting to appreciate it more. The Succor boost is definitely noticeable. Looking forward to getting it to 70 and trying out the new toys, which is not something that was true before.
    (1)
    Survivor of Housing Savage 2018.
    Discord: Tridus#2642

  6. #6
    Player
    Tridus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    The Goblet
    Posts
    1,510
    Character
    Cecelia Stormfeather
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Cleric stance was an archaic relic of a previous phase of the game. It was clunky to use and added nothing except making life difficult for newbies.

    Good riddence to bad design. That some people think removing it was somehow an affront to "good" healers to placate "casuals" is a perfect example of why gamers shouldn't be making game design decisions.
    (2)
    Survivor of Housing Savage 2018.
    Discord: Tridus#2642

  7. #7
    Player
    Kabzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Central Shroud
    Posts
    661
    Character
    Kabz Il
    World
    Spriggan
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Tridus View Post
    Cleric stance was an archaic relic of a previous phase of the game. It was clunky to use and added nothing except making life difficult for newbies.

    Good riddence to bad design. That some people think removing it was somehow an affront to "good" healers to placate "casuals" is a perfect example of why gamers shouldn't be making game design decisions.
    Though this is a thread about SCH, and the post I was referring to was how Cleric Stance's removal was an indirect nerf to SCH. Cleric Stance may have felt "clunky" to some, that doesn't mean that SCH didn't thrive on the ability back in 2/3.x. The whole point in dumbing things down was to close the skill gap, so to say it wasn't a change for the casuals is questionable at best.

    You can word it as you will, the simple fact is that it was a change for the casuals. Anybody playing a healer at high level had no issue with it, in fact it actually added slightly more skill to the role as there was a risk/reward factor tied to the stance which no longer exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miles_Maelstrom View Post
    Problem I have with this, the statement that we had great synergy with cleric stance, is that cleric stance wasn't even a scholar action. It's something we borrowed with cross, saying we were designed to synergize with a ability that isn't even from our kit is wierd to me. Seems backwards thing for the designers to do as well.
    I'll agree with this, it is rather odd. It would make more sense now with the Cross Role system, but RIP.

    There's no denying though that SCH had the best kit to use Cleric Stance with in 2/3.x. And even now our Stormblood abilities have synergy with a stance that doesn't even exist.
    (5)
    Last edited by Kabzy; 10-26-2017 at 11:09 PM.

  8. #8
    Player
    Cynfael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    2,164
    Character
    Sacrilege Moonshadow
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 80
    I was in favor of CS being removed because A) it freed up a hotkey and B) was a constant source of forum complaining and drama (people who still don't understand how the game works - no, there really isn't unpredictable damage - and/or have latency issues that make the stance more difficult to use correctly) and didn't add much value gameplay-wise for experienced players.

    On the other hand, I do agree with Kabzy that SCH's toolkit appears more than ever to be synergized with a now non-existent stance mechanic. I consider this to be more of an identity issue, which is my main beef with SCH this expansion. SCH, the pet healer whose pet's overall effectiveness is further marginalized with each major update; the barrier healer who doesn't do it quite as well as the newcomer; the ease-of-DPS healer in an expansion where sources of indirect healing no longer have value in extending a CS DPS window; the adaptive healer when each healer now has powerful oGCD and instacast tools.

    SCH is perfectly capable, especially with the recent round of buffs (particularly to Succor, which also offers great synergy with Emergency Tactics when needed); however, SCH is missing some of the uniqueness and shine that made it so appealing to me before. The inexplicable lack of synergy within its own kit (e.g. Fey Union vs. Dissipation) also continues to boggle me.
    (8)

  9. #9
    Player Miles_Maelstrom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Idylshire
    Posts
    448
    Character
    Miles Maelstrom
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 80
    I hate Dissipation, I know some think it can be useful with good reason, but I just have this irrational hatred for that action.
    (6)

  10. #10
    Player
    technole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,973
    Character
    Thea Sitori
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 72
    Quote Originally Posted by Miles_Maelstrom View Post
    I hate Dissipation, I know some think it can be useful with good reason, but I just have this irrational hatred for that action.
    Haters gonna hate.

    Had a static 13 deaths in O3S, still cleared. Dissipate can be quite useful in a pinch. You just don't always plan on it.
    (0)

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