4.1 - The emptiest patch yet.

[Xatsh]

FFXI was the past however, they tried to emulate and recreate that feeling once, it failed, hard
for reference watch the FFXIV documentary

They did not try to emulate it, very very far from it. They did not copy WoW either in the original 1.0. It was just a horrible idea and was released about 3yrs too early on a garbage engine.


FFXIV 1.0 was nothing like FFXI at all, and I played FFXI for over 20k hours and 1.0 from alpha to shutdown so I can easily say that with 100% accuracy. It was one of the biggest complaints from the ppl playing 1.0 was it was not FFXI and it was a complete unfinished mess.

But then again a mmo designed exactly like FFXI would fail horribly in this day in age. The non-negating horizontal content was a major positive of FFXI though and why it held most of its playerbase across 8yrs, also why you could play the game 60hrs a week and not get bored out of your mind after a month.

But on topic. 4.1 well seems to be a lack of content... combined with 4.0 which most ppl are exhausting thier content. 80% of my guild atm logs in does daily and logs out unless it is a raid night. It is not good sign. SE needs to pumping out more serious content and less fluff... they appear to be doing the opposite.

I know they count monthly subs and crap instead of concurrent users... but that does not help ppl in game, does not help the guilds which stuggle to get ppl on mid/late patch. It does not help with the extreme Boredom after you are done leveling/getting entree level endgame. The we want people to be able to play other games excuse is absurdity... it is them stating they cannot release enough content. They should be trying to fix the problem not embracing it as the way to make a game.

[Elkanah]

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Horizontal progression. Or do neither of you see that if you actually played XI? Cause it doesn't seem to be the case. Okay, so let me re-explain this, as apparently you two hadn't thought to read the past post I made two pages ago. Saying you played XI or still do, and still can't see the type of content that released pre-SoA, and the current generation after 2-5 years in expansions compared to 10 years passing, says a lot about what you hadn't done or had played very long. All you basically said without saying much, is that you prefer content exactly as it is and never changing. And I'm putting these words in perspective of your post, as you have not said or done anything yourselves, to make yourself relevant to the discussion on what can be done differently and beyond what we already have gone through THREE TIMES. I repeat, THREE TIMES in THREE DIFFERENT headlines of the SAME CONTENT. I'm not even gonna point out the garbage that was 1.0. Other than hamlet defense, which was actually enjoyable for all classes at once.

Let's look at XI through the years:
FFXI:
Base game, story missions for the nations.
Burning Circle Notorious monsters
Notorious monsters (basically hunts with loot drops for epic gear depending on NM and time)
-
Rise of the Zilart:
Sky.
Dynamis.
-
Chains of Promathia:
Dynamis.
Sea.
Limbus.
Empty Notorious monsters
-
Treasures of Aht Urhgan:
Salvage
Einherjar
Assaults
Zeni Notorious Monsters
Nyzul Isle Investigation
Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey (level 99)
Imperial Seal Notorious Monsters (ISNM)
Salvage II (level 99)
-
Wings of the Goddess:
Stronghold Notorious Monsters (SCNM)
Allied Notes Notorious Monsters (ANNM)
Meeble Burrows (Meeble)
-
Abyssea:
Most of this was gear based content for better gear and upgrades
-
Seekers of Adoulin:
Skirmish
Delve
-
Rhapsodies of Vana'diel:
Omen system
-------------
Now again, I'm not saying I want XI reborn. These are mostly examples of endgame content that could be added. Not THESE specifically. But NEW content that's not re-hashed based on old content. A lot of the content still remained relevant to the game after the ilvl and level went up to 99. Yes, it got repetitive AFTER Seekers of Adoulin released. But at that point, you already lost your player base or most of them. So you want that path to happen? Wait till everyone leaves BEFORE you decide it's a good idea to add content? Sky remained relevant to the game even after abyssea was added, as was sea, einherjar AND limbus. Also Assaults, Salvage and Notorious monster hunting. You'd know this if you actually played back then before abyssea and up till Seekers of Adoulin. You know how many expansions that is? THATS THREE EXPANSIONS. Not 1. Not 2. THREE. We're on expansion TWO, and the content remains exactly the same format after ARR, HW and now SB. FFXI > RoZ > COP > TOAU.

Gear STOPS being relevant after 5 minutes. That's sarcasm, just so you know. But it still holds water. We have 1 full set of endgame content and gear. That's it. It's the ONLY max level ilvl gear in the game. Everything else is below it or worse. How is that okay? There's not much to do after you do your endgame farming content after many hours in the week. Or progression. With FFXI as an example, there were too many things you can do on the off days or outside of it.

Dynamis was your weekly raid. So think savage content.
Same with Einherjar. So we'll call that savage as well since you had a time limit of when you can go back in next. What happens when you finished for the night?

Options:
Well, there was Assaults for better gear, weapons and weapon skills for those weapons.
There was Nyzule Isle which also helped in progressing gear outside of the content. No lock out though. Just depended on the people and points for nyzule. Think of this as POTD but with gear and progression.
There was salvage. Also gear but the cost of gear could be pricey and rng was more or less a pain, but still something you can do outside of Dynamis.
NM's, also referred to as hunts in FFXIV, but gave out drops for gear. Now, the original system spawned easy mobs and incredibly difficult ones, but the rewards were amazing and not just a set of points for GC that just sat there.
Burning Circle Notorious monsters - this can be gear and/or gil. Depends on which one you do. Almost like going into a primal fight with a set amount of players but with circumstances and pretty epic rewards outside of rng.
Sky - fighting the gods themselves that fell into slumber and re-awoke. Also dropped gear.
Sea - fighting beings from another world. Also provided gear.
Limbus - which while it had some time syncs, it was a 18+ person fight and coordinating to get epic drops and/or loot for drops.
Abyssea - provided gear and upgrades for gear.
Limbus - more gear in the same content.
Let's not forget the Apoc nigh, which provided gear at the end.
Also Warriors of the Crystal, aka Warriors of Darkness, that also dropped gear for content.

FFXI released May 2002 in North America. (we're not counting JP since they had to re-roll JP server and english servers together, and some other features that were pushed back).
Rise of Zilart released a year later in 2003. Expanding areas and creating new jobs and content listed above.
Chains of promathia released 2004 just a year later, and expanded on new places/zones and new content both casual and hardcore "endgame" in this case.
Treasures of Aht Urhgan released in 2006 that expanded even FURTHER on endgame content, but you know what? CoP and RoZ content STILL remained relevant.
I can go on further with the other expansions that released that was also both casual and endgame enabled, and still had things to do further. But those came down later in the years.

We now have PF or Party Finder and DF or Duty Finder. Making and matching people who want to do content, is more than acceptable. And guess what? You can still circle other ideas into these two type of things people can use to play the game. Casual and/or endgame for high end rewards. Now, you didn't have to do Dynamis. You didn't have to do Einherjar. But you know what? You had a ton of options in the game. Always changed from expansion to expansion, but kept the gear and content relevant as 3-6 years passed before TOAU released. And being bored was almost never a problem with endgame. You know what is though? FFXIV structure.

[Remedi]

They did not try to emulate it, very very far from it. They did not copy WoW either in the original 1.0. It was just a horrible idea and was released about 3yrs too early on a garbage engine.


FFXIV 1.0 was nothing like FFXI at all, and I played FFXI for over 20k hours and 1.0 from alpha to shutdown so I can easily say that with 100% accuracy. It was one of the biggest complaints from the ppl playing 1.0 was it was not FFXI and it was a complete unfinished mess.

But then again a mmo designed exactly like FFXI would fail horribly in this day in age. The non-negating horizontal content was a major positive of FFXI though and why it held most of its playerbase across 8yrs, also why you could play the game 60hrs a week and not get bored out of your mind after a month.

But on topic. 4.1 well seems to be a lack of content... combined with 4.0 which most ppl are exhausting thier content. 80% of my guild atm logs in does daily and logs out unless it is a raid night. It is not good sign. SE needs to pumping out more serious content and less fluff... they appear to be doing the opposite.

I know they count monthly subs and crap instead of concurrent users... but that does not help ppl in game, does not help the guilds which stuggle to get ppl on mid/late patch. It does not help with the extreme Boredom after you are done leveling/getting entree level endgame. The we want people to be able to play other games excuse is absurdity... it is them stating they cannot release enough content. They should be trying to fix the problem not embracing it as the way to make a game.

In the documentary it's stated that they were developing 1.0 based on what worked for FFXI, that's why I wrote that, koji himself said it was a huge mistake and that they were out of touch with the time, doesn't mean you are wrong on what you say 1.0 was, but I was referring on the developing thought behind

[Remedi]

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Honestly you it's not really a fair comparison you should limit it to the second expansion released

[Elkanah]

Honestly you it's not really a fair comparison you should limit it to the second expansion released

Even if I did, there was still more compelling content in two expansions than there is here. Or do you not see the structure is exactly the same from ARR to SB, but RoZ and Chains of promathia added new content and wasn't rehashed or reused other than Dynamis, which just expanded on more zones for content? You had more than enough to do in a week, before the next time you could essentially go back in for dynamis zones. But sky and sea still took a lot of time, as there was monsters and content all in those zones for other means, outside of dynamis your main bread and butter.

Limbus was essentially 24 man raid with 18 people more/less, but was something you could do with a party. Our 24 man raid content is exactly the same from ARR. 24 people. Not so up to same ilvl gear, and lock outs. Limbus wasn't locked out. Neither was sky or sea. Just depended on the people. And with PF/DF, you can easily do content with finding people both casual and hardcore. There was also notorious monsters in the world that dropped gear. Burning circle NM's which housed gear/drops for gil. The thing is, the content always changed. It didn't stay the same. It ALWAYS changed. Did you sea Sky and sky II and Sky III? Or Sea, Sea 2 and Sea 3 of the same content? Nope. Limbus? Nope. How about Dynamis? Not really. Burning circles? No. Notorious monsters? No.

[Remedi]

I haven't played FFXI so can't really judge, however that's your opinion maybe other won't see that your way, personally I think by what you wrote that in 2 exp we got more than it was on XI but yes that's my opinion
That said they are 2 different games so get over it

[Elkanah]

I haven't played FFXI so can't really judge, however that's your opinion maybe other won't see that your way, personally I think by what you wrote that in 2 exp we got more than it was on XI but yes that's my opinion
That said they are 2 different games so get over it

It's two different games, you're right. However, you're missing the point that the structure of content was never really the same from expansion to expansion. From base game to 2 expansions in, it always helped to change, and feel fresh with new content added. Using the same structure 3 times in a row, doesn't mean "fresh" or "compelling" or even "new". It's just "the same". But your response of "get over it" is childish in saying that you don't want the game to grow or get better. You just want to be plain jane and you accept it. You're the problem of the community and why the devs don't change things up because "it works". I'm sorry. You're not the reason for the issue. The community is. But I guess losing more subs is okay, cause hey, we can just grab new players and turn them into the players that left. And you know what happens? They leave, and the cycle repeats itself.

[Elkanah]

As much as we ask for more content to be added or that can be implemented into the game, I'll tell you the same thing I told another forum awhile back. The reason a lot of suggestions are held off, isn't because of the PS3's original limitations. Otherwise, there'd be no point in getting rid of it for storm blood if we still cannot have much better things. The answer to all the issues? Answer: 1.0 coding.

Many people don't realize just how much of FFXIV 1.0's coding is STILL in this game. And as we all know, 1.0 gawd awful. It was the worst MMORPG for its time. It made FFXI look like a teddy bear in comparison. I understand that some may think this to be saying too much, but it's not. Coding can play many factors into their projects. The problem comes down to how much 1.0 coding is still in the game that needs to be removed. Yoshi-P once stated in a live letter at FanFest interview (off stage), building one project and making sure it works, while also checking all other parts of the game to ensure that no other part breaks, makes the job stressful for the issue.

Those 5 new pieces that were officially added, just happened to be part of the coding now offset some of the older mechanics or zones for 1.0, and caused that shipwreck for some of the newer content just added. Now, the developers have to put in even more emergency maintenance to fix a game that was supposed to be available to play that tuesday night. This has happened many times before. So I can understand why a lot of the designs we love or really want, haven't been implemented yet. Until all of 1.0 is vanished from this game, the game is stuck in a standstill and all suggestions for the time being are somewhat null and void. This is the same reason the games base will not change or has not changed since ARR's original release over 3+ years the game has been actively running.

[Remedi]

It's two different games, you're right. However, you're missing the point that the structure of content was never really the same from expansion to expansion. From base game to 2 expansions in, it always helped to change, and feel fresh with new content added. Using the same structure 3 times in a row, doesn't mean "fresh" or "compelling" or even "new". It's just "the same". But your response of "get over it" is childish in saying that you don't want the game to grow or get better. You just want to be plain jane and you accept it. You're the problem of the community and why the devs don't change things up because "it works". I'm sorry. You're not the reason for the issue. The community is. But I guess losing more subs is okay, cause hey, we can just grab new players and turn them into the players that left. And you know what happens? They leave, and the cycle repeats itself.

The problem is that, just as other ppl have told you and others, I'm tired to see this trite argument of more of the same without bringing nothing on the table, or saying how FFXI was better so excuse me is I get annoyed over it, at this point it is a given from me and anyone else

[Elkanah]

The problem is that, just as other ppl have told you and others, I'm tired to see this trite argument of more of the same without bringing nothing on the table, or saying how FFXI was better so excuse me is I get annoyed over it, at this point it is a given from me and anyone else

More of the point is we want to see some changes in the game. And changing structure or at least adding things to that topical structure would be better is all. We who also want to see change are also tired of the argument that non placeholders feel about the game being different. We all play the same game. We just want more to add on the "what to do" list, and not so much of a "log in once and then log out till next week" type of deal.