Is the vote kick system improperly implemented for how it's actually being used?

[Taika]

I don't see kick abuse much at all when I'm solo queueing dungeons. It's very rare.

So, if it's happening to someone enough that they're feeling like the system is set up to be exploited, I would suggest that they ask themselves if the system is really the one at fault. If you're getting kicked a lot, it's far less likely to be because of troll premades getting their jollies by harrassing people. What you might see as acceptable behaviour might not be seen the same way by others.

This. I solo queue for almost everything in DF. In my entire time playing the game (since 1.0), I have been kicked from a party once, in 2014 I think. I've played on both NA and EU data centres. It's also rare to see others being kicked from DF parties. If this happens to you often, consider the option that the fault may not be in everyone else.

[kikix12]

Still, kicking right before the last boss, while not doing anything about it before, is a jerk move. If a problem arises, it should be solved at first opportunity or "ignored" all the way to the end.

As for the suggestion for a vote...that's not actually needed. That's what chat is for.

Recently, while leveling my Paladin, I ended up in a party with one DPS wanting to clear Haukke Manor fully. He went ahead and picked up mobs that are out of the way, in additional rooms etc. When he pulled the mobs on the side next to the first boss, I told him that I would prefer it if he told me if he wanted a full clear instead of pulling the mobs himself. He said that he's there for experience and he does, but someone else said they wanted a fast clear. After the first boss was downed, I asked the members whether they want fast clear or full clear. My vote excluded, for an odd amount of people. He wanted full clear but both of the others wanted fast clear. And we went ahead with a fast clear. He didn't cause problems about that.

Why do you need a mechanic to allow for something like that? Sure, the auto abandon is a function that this doesn't offer...but then again...many parties would not be particularly happy about that. They would prefer to "talk it over" in case of a tie (which wouldn't even happen if there's anyone that would be fine either way, like it was the case in me).

[BigRed5392]

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but personal experience (with over 1000 completed instances) says that abuse of votekicks happens less than 1% of the time. I've been troll kicked a total of twice since I've started playing, and seen maybe 5 abusive kicks on other people. Perhaps I'm lucky, or perhaps people this happens to on a more regular basis are actually doing things to invite it. For instance, if you're doggedly trying to enforce your own personal preference of playstyle on strangers that aren't ok with it, you invite a potential kick.

you're just lucky. I've seen the latter. And people rarely "ask for it" most people just play the game and try to communicate to people when need to.

[kikix12]

you're just lucky. I've seen the latter. And people rarely "ask for it" most people just play the game and try to communicate to people when need to.

I think you're just biased cause it's easier to remember the bad than the good. In about ten months of me playing, I saw two or three kicks in total. Two on the same person, in a span of two days...just cause that person did not do a thing after entering a dungeon. Ah...one was a kick in PvP for botting. I never saw a kick for anything gameplay related or a personality related. And I am anything but lucky. And there were times when I was in horrid parties where people kept arguing and what not, where kicking was most certainly a valid option.

On a different note, being overly defensive and saying "I play how I want to, if you don't like then it's your problem" IS inviting a kick. Dungeons/trials are first and foremost party play content. You don't play them how you want to. You play them how the party wants to. And that applies to all the people involved. Most of the time, party lets everyone do stuff their own way, and that's fine. But sometimes you get into a party that does not, and that wants to do it a specific way. Either adapt...or leave on your own. If not, whether excusable or not, you may end up being kicked.

Now, I don't say either that kicking for gameplay differences is either good or bad. I just state the facts, how people react to things. When dealing with others, unlike when dealing with computers...you accept the fact that your opinion and your way does not need to always be the one followed by the group. It's simple as that.

[LaylaTsarra]

I have close to 7,000 duties on my main alone not counting my 5 fully leveled alts and I can say that people are rarely kicked in duty finder in my experience unless they AFK or DC. I would venture to say those who see a lot more kicks may in fact be the ones initiating the kicks or are talking about party finder and duties like clears for deltascape and the like where people join who have no clears or who are seriously under performing.

[Snow_Princess]

Congratulations: You just found yet another flaw in the 4-man party setup.In a 4-man setup, 2vs2 ties can happen and there's no fair way to make a resolution.

In a 5-man setup, the 5th person acts as a tiebreaker - It's always either 3vs2 or 4vs1, a clear majority and a clear minority.

Just write it on the:"Why it was a bad idea to make parties be 4 man" list.

That might be a good overhaul for 5.0, make it 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps, none of this 2 v 2 premade situations, then it is whoever gets the vote kick up first.

I don't see kick abuse much at all when I'm solo queueing dungeons. It's very rare.

So, if it's happening to someone enough that they're feeling like the system is set up to be exploited, I would suggest that they ask themselves if the system is really the one at fault. If you're getting kicked a lot, it's far less likely to be because of troll premades getting their jollies by harrassing people. What you might see as acceptable behaviour might not be seen the same way by others.

It is not " very rare" just rare.

The best solo queue harassment I seen was on my BLM during HW. A tank refused to play properly, and I would use quelling, and got hate again about 3 sec after it wore off. I was told "push less buttons" and was kicked.

Any event, Kick abuse should be taken more seriously. It does not matter how "rare" it is, there should be more efforts to not enabling trolling.

I have another question now that I think about it, if a majority premade enters a trial, and "votes" to keep wiping it, and kicks the people trying to perform it right, what then? how is the majority correct in that case? (Yes it happened)

I have close to 7,000 duties on my main alone not counting my 5 fully leveled alts and I can say that people are rarely kicked in duty finder in my experience unless they AFK or DC. I would venture to say those who see a lot more kicks may in fact be the ones initiating the kicks or are talking about party finder and duties like clears for deltascape and the like where people join who have no clears or who are seriously under performing.

No, tends to happen more when you are in some sort of premade, like 2 or 3 queuing together.

[Cenerae]

snip

I think you're kind of proving my point here. It obviously hasn't happened much to you either, or you'd have more than the one huge eye roller of a story (I wonder how that tank's friend/s put up with that sort of attitude). Rare is rare, even if you might quibble over *how* rare.

I don't believe I ever said that kick abuse shouldn't be taken seriously though. I simply said that people who seem to think that it's common enough to be a big problem are probably getting kicked due to their own actions more than to the rare abusive premade kicks. People that are abusing the kick system absolutely should be punished for it, however.

Also, extending the group composition to 3 dps, 1 tank 1 healer won't stop those rare abusive kicks from happening. Because 3 man premades are a thing too. Could easily see more of those with an extra slot for DPS being allowed.

[Ayer2015]

Vote kick should be limited to offline, afk, and harassment. Our GMs including 'different play styles' which isn't even listed as an option just causes problems.

[Miste]

Vote kick should be limited to offline, afk, and harassment. Our GMs including 'different play styles' which isn't even listed as an option just causes problems.

Do you have any suggestions on how they would fix it though?

Because they are going to get reports from people who got kicked because they refused to compromise to the majority.

If one person wants to RP /walk through the dungeon and stop every few mins taking screenshots of things and the 3 others don't and they kick the person walking then....they should get punished for kicking for differing play styles?

What about a tank who is trying to speed run and the 3 others don't want to? If they kick the tank for differing play styles.... do they get punished for kicking him?

[Laerune]

This is why SE went with the current different playstyle option. Miste has a point, how would SE fix this?

I tanked a dungeon yesterday and we had this BLM who was either roleplaying or trolling as a Thunder Mage. He refused to cast any other skill, then Thunder (single damage) and Thunder (AoE damage) spells. The BLM refused to work with the rest of the group and decided that his sub = he can do whatever he wants without any consequences. We kicked him out and moved on.

If playerstyle differences were not a valid option, then 3 players would have been punished for 1 players playstyle. I understand that playstyle differences is not ideal, but its the best option that we have right now.